Group 3, Lizard's Lair - part 1 - Discussion

[EricStratton]

Discuss

--

Welcome back, Sagar! Talk about dedication - he posts in the PbP thread before the Daily. That's my kind of GM!

[Lycos]

*mumble mumble mumble*

*large crowd background noise*

[Shiz]

I will be in Jackson Hole this week, but I will have afternoon PC access just not for extended periods of time.

[Sagar]

We've had some personnel reductions at work and my group is now about half the size it was last year (2 vs 4). I expect I'll have limited time at work to run the campaign.

When time allows, I can make comments during the day. More complicated stuff (like battles or big discussions) will have to wait until lunch or after work (or weekends).

[DinbinFanfoom]

Understood. That probably works out well for me too, as we're pretty busy here.

[EricStratton]

This doesn't work for me. I'll talk to your boss, Sagar, and see what I can do.

[Lycos]

Understood. That's fine.

[EricStratton]

Baladir: Let's go right up to the entrance. C'mon, it's a lizard lair. We zip in, we zip right out again. We're not going to the Dark Lord's Lair. It's a lizard lair. It's like going into Wisconsin.

Fandango: Well I got the **** kicked out of me in Wisconsin once. Forget it!

:D
I'm recommending a couple bonus XP for the Stripes quote. :lowlol:

[EricStratton]

Just throwing it out there - do we want to hold off on the fight until tomorrow when Shiz gets here or just go ahead w/ it?

[Lycos]

Just throwing it out there - do we want to hold off on the fight until tomorrow when Shiz gets here or just go ahead w/ it?


Well, I would say if he is not posting this afternoon, that one of us should take control of his character in his absence.

[Sagar]

Shiz left a message on Greebo's phone asking him to PM me to tell me that "Eric can run Trask until I get home but please tell him to not use any daily's but make liberal use of encounter powers."

Greebo dutifully passed on said information.

I told him I was stalling to let Shiz get home :p

[DinbinFanfoom]

As the map stands, Brun can't get in melee range in a normal move (5) as you can't diagonally cut around a wall-corner.

Is it agreed then that we are charging into the room and doing our best to fight on one front?

[Lycos]

Yeah, let's do it. I will try and delay the others as long as I can.

[Zyzzyx]

I'm thinking of getting Flaming Sphere going for the rearguard. Casting it at K9. Leave it there to block that path, and ready for damage attacks when we're done with the room. Anyone got a problem with that?

(in other words, stay clear, Baladir)

[Shiz]

Flaming Sphere is an excellent idea, especially if you place it near - but not adjacent to - Brun so that Lizardmen attacking her take the proximity damage.

[Lycos]

We sort of have a dilema now. We're getting ranged attacks no matter what now. I'm thinking our options are this.

1. Move into the room all the way to get out of the los for LMan5.
2. I can take position in the passageway to get between the casters and LMan5.
3. Or we let LMan5 keep shooting his darts until he runs out of them.

Sagar, is there a way to use my shield in a defensive mode only to block projectiles like this? How effective is it?

[DinbinFanfoom]

AFAIK, people can take partial cover behind an ally.

[Shiz]

Baladir, there is plenty of room to pull back out of dart range. Best to do it soon before you get engaged. It would be nice if Solak and Amaril got clear first.

[Sagar]

You can be cover for Solak if you stand between him and the lizard.

[Asharad]

Not to give the DM any ideas, but if those darts aren't poisoned, these lizardmen are ****ing amateurs.

So take that into consideration also. Baladir can probably take it better.

[EricStratton]

Not to give the DM any ideas, but if those darts aren't poisoned, these lizardmen are ****ing amateurs.

So take that into consideration also. Baladir can probably take it better.
Seeing as how Amaril's arm is burning more than it should, I'm thinking, yeah, they're poisoned.

[Asharad]

Oh, did I not read again?

damnit!

[DinbinFanfoom]

Oh, did I not read again?
damnit!
Intelligence = Dumpstat.

[Sagar]

About the natural 1.

I am in a bit of a quandry about how to handle that.

Personally, I think a natural 1 should be a total miss - no damage.
Brun's attack does str bonus on a miss.

I think, unless you all strongly disagree, that we should say natural 1's are always complete misses and do no damage whatsoever.

What do you think?

[DinbinFanfoom]

I hadn't checked the PHB on it, to be honest.
If it's a complete, I'll use the 2 instead. :P

Edit:
From the PHB:

✦ Miss: If your attack roll is lower than the defense

score, the attack misses. Usually, there’s no effect.

Some powers have an effect on a miss, such as dealing

half damage.






Automatic Miss:

If you roll a natural 1 (the die shows a 1), your attack automatically misses.


It LOOKS like a 1 is just a miss, but I might have missed something else in the PHB...
Reaping Strike:

You punctuate your scything attacks with wicked jabs and small


cutting blows that slip through your enemy’s defenses.
At-Will





✦ Martial,Weapon

Standard Action Melee



weapon

Target:



One creature

Attack:



Strength vs. AC

Hit:



1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.


Miss:



Half Strength modifier damage. If you’re wielding
a two-handed weapon, you deal damage equal to your Strength modifier.











Is there anything additionally special about a "natural 1" in the PHB?

Looking at other implementations: http://www.acaeum.com/forum/about7167.html

[Shiz]

I am with Din on this. The "natural 1" aura that Sagar has is from earlier versions of DnD. 4th Ed doesn't give a 1 anything extra bad.

That said, I think we can all live with Sagar's interpretation if that's the way he wants it.

[Asharad]

Yeah, the 1 being an automatic miss is a penalty that just makes sure if you roll a one it misses no matter what your bonuses are.

It doesn't make you miss worse, as I understand it, it's just a guaranteed miss. So anything that has a "damage on a miss" should still have that damage.

[Lycos]

About the natural 1.

I am in a bit of a quandry about how to handle that.

Personally, I think a natural 1 should be a total miss - no damage.
Brun's attack does str bonus on a miss.

I think, unless you all strongly disagree, that we should say natural 1's are always complete misses and do no damage whatsoever.

What do you think?

As long as it applies equally to the monsters, I am fine with that.

[Sagar]

I thought about it more as I walked to my morning meeting.
A natural 20 is a perfect attack.
A one is supposed to be an automatic miss.

Maybe we should consider a 1 as a "no attack". It used to be a critical fumble with consequences. For our purposes, we just say something happened that interrupted the attack before it was launched so it just didn't happen. A weapon slides from your grasp, you drop the wand, you slip, you forget a key magic word or phrase - whatever flavor text you want.

But the attack didn't happen. There is no damage. The daily or encounter power was never used. That kind of thing.

Or, we can just leave it as a miss and let it go.

I prefer the "no attack" option but I am open to formation.

[Sagar]

I am with Din on this. The "natural 1" aura that Sagar has is from earlier versions of DnD. 4th Ed doesn't give a 1 anything extra bad.


Agreed.. but I kinda miss those old 1's...

:lowrazz:

But I can let it just be a boring miss if you want :)

[Lycos]

I'm ok with a no attack.

[Asharad]

the no attack option works.

[Shiz]

The DM has the right to be a tyrant. I will go along with his ruling.

[Sagar]

The DM has the right to be a tyrant. I will go along with his ruling.

From the east, a team of lizarman shamen enter the room.
Gesturing, they wrest control of the ball of flame away from Solak.
The ball of flame flies towards Trask.
It bounces low off the wall and disappears up under Trask's cloak.

Trask's eye bulge wide as the ball of flame wedges itsself into his bummcrack.

[Shiz]

"Fire in my hole!"

[EricStratton]

I'm cool either way. I kinda like that 1s cause the power to not be used at all. But something inside me feels like that's cheating.

[Shiz]

It's a good compromise.

[Zyzzyx]

"Fire in my hole!"

Armageddon!!

[EricStratton]

I hate giving the snipers free shots like that. Does it make sense to try to move to the NE corner of the room to draw them out of the water?

[Shiz]

Yes but watch the door.

[Asharad]

Brun, I'm going to start being a lot more mobile in combat. I am giving up CAs by staying so static and firing away from a distance.

I mention it because it means I'm going to try and use you as a flanker more than I have been.

[Sagar]

Note to self.. when reusing sprites in a battle, renumber them so the DM doesn't get confused.

By the way, I've added more minions to fights.. but they will often be indistinguishable from normal mobs. You've probably noticed that already...

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun, I'm going to start being a lot more mobile in combat. I am giving up CAs by staying so static and firing away from a distance."Zis is fine by me!" Brun yells from the fray.

Sure, get in where you can. Brun is all about breaking their formations and getting them spread out. Kinda like tossing a grenade into a room...

[EricStratton]

With a slight tilt of his staff, Solak directs the space heater, er... Flaming Sphere, to move to T5.

No direct attack with the sphere, but: Effect: Creature starting turn adjacent to sphere take 1d4+5 fire dmg

At the same time with his right hand he pulls the shadows from underneath the lizardmen in that area, writhing them up their bodies, playing with their minds.

Grasping Shadows; +7 vs Will, Area Burst 1 (3x3), Range 10, 1d8+5 psychic dmg, target slowed until end of next turn; any creature entering the area takes int mod (5) dmg, slowed until end of its next turn.

Effect centered on the sphere at T5
Liz4: 4+7
Liz8: 5+7
Liz7: 13+7



Geez, I was thinking for awhile on this move, going back and forth on options and which would best handle the rolls I had to deal with. Ended up going with my first thought.


edit add: Bal, I'll move north next round, used my move action for the sphere.
Unless the map changes before Z's turn, Z you'll want to center the blast on U5 (not T5) to hit lizards 4, 7 and 8.

And moving the flaming ball to T5 will hit Brun as well, FYI.

[Zyzzyx]

Bugger, read the map wrong. Both my T5s should be U5s.

Sorry, Sagar, if you're already processing that one.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I'm still of the opinion that there is no "critical miss", just a miss (otherwise they'd make another rule for it) but I'll go with the majority, no big deal. My reason for thinking that way is because of the types of attacks that "do damage on a miss"... the reason is they're not really a single swipe:

Reaping Strike: "You punctuate your scything attacks with wicked jabs and small cutting blows that slip through your enemy’s defenses."

What is happening is the melee is taking MULTIPLE small stabs in this case, and only one or two of them hit (the STR damage) instead of all of them. It's not so much a "ah, you missed but SOMEHOW did some damage..."

I'd imagine most other attacks that "hit on a miss" also have this sort of flavour text that explain how damage on a "miss" is possible.

[Zyzzyx]

You can move after your attack.

Is that to Solak, or Baladir?

If me, I couldn't. Used my move action for the sphere.

As a move action, you can move the sphere up to
6 squares.

[Shiz]

Are Roll 5s encounter specific? If we manage to finish the encounter with low rolls left, are those gone or do they carry over to the next encounter?

[Shiz]

EXP on our characters on the map is wrong, if you care Sagar. Trask has 4110 and others have different numbers.

[Sagar]

I just threw up an estimate of the exp. It was not intended to be correct.

Hadn't thought about rolls after an encounter.
Too much trouble to remember them. They will not carry over.

[DinbinFanfoom]

How about one of the PC's in the exposed hallway feigns collapse (succumb to poison) and see if a lizard comes to investigate? The rest of us can hide around the corner.

Although I don't think they'd be that dumb.

[EricStratton]

I doubt they'd be that dumb as well. But we certainly can't try to get into a ranged fight w/ them. I think we should move on and try to get them out of the water.

[Shiz]

I am gonna kill 'em.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun has assumed the water is deeper than her armour would allow her to traverse without... gills. Otherwise, it'd be game-on. Do we know for sure how deep it is there?

[Shiz]

They might be the 1hp kind. We will know after I hit one.

[DinbinFanfoom]

They might be the 1hp kind. We will know after I hit one.
If they aren't, should we waste time on em?

[Shiz]

No. We walk.

[DinbinFanfoom]

"If you guys wanna get whomped, you're gonna have to come over HERE and get whomped!"

*walk off in huff*

[Lycos]

I found Trask's next Christmas present.

http://www.stylefeeder.com/i/285l5llp/Beware-Of-The-Killer-Weasel-Adult-Hooded-Sweatshirt-Hoodie-Hoody-Various-Colors

[Lycos]

I'm in meetings, for the rest of the week. Shiz can play Baladir in my absence.

[Shiz]

On the new cloak, so once per day it can generate its own dim light to help with stealth? Seems like a weird Daily power since I cannot see a reason to activate in combat. If a power lasts "until the end of the encounter" then how long does it last outside of an encounter? 5 minutes? 10 Minutes?

Not complaining, just thinking about how it can be used.

[Sagar]

Agreed. Like many things in 4E, it doesn't make complete sense as presented.
We'll just work through it when the time comes up.

I'd probably say it works for 5 minutes outside of combat.

[Asharad]

On the new cloak, so once per day it can generate its own dim light to help with stealth? Seems like a weird Daily power since I cannot see a reason to activate in combat. If a power lasts "until the end of the encounter" then how long does it last outside of an encounter? 5 minutes? 10 Minutes?

Not complaining, just thinking about how it can be used.

Thats a good point. I dont think I would actually go into stealth mode in combat.

Unless I am misunderstanding it and that it is sort of like having an instant-on partial concealment. Which would be handy.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Combat starts against 15 lizardmen.
Thief triggers cloak.
Night-blind fighter swings axe randomly.
Hilarity ensues.

[Zyzzyx]

You forgot a step.



5. Profit!!!

[EricStratton]

Speaking of monster knowledge checks, how did Fandango and Brun know anything about the sea-devil?
Both Brunhilde and Fandango (13+2 nature vs DC 15) recognize it as a sahuagin.
Where'd the 13+2 come from? Both Brun and Fand have Nature skills of 2.

[Asharad]

I assume we rolled 13

[EricStratton]

I assume we rolled 13
Hmm, yeah, I guess it could've been a couple good rolls. Would've needed an 11 for one of you and then an 8+ for the other to assist (the +2).

For the record I did completely and totally forget that rolling was involved in that. I had just spent 5 minutes trying to grok passive skills and "take 10" and forgot about rolling. I blame this stomach bug.

[Shiz]

You cannot assist on knowledge checks afaik.

[Sagar]

That is correct. They both rolled 13 on the knowledge check.

In general, I agree that you can't get help with a knowledge check. But I can see instances where two people can work together to jog their respective memories to remember something. In that case, if they took the time to do so, I might allow assistance.

[Shiz]

I am in agreement with whomever suggested that maybe we would prefer the lizardmen be in these caverns vs the goblins. The problem is the goblins will be very upset and likely take it out on human settlements.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I think the "normal" lizardmen would likely be fine. And I don't think our consciences should bother us if we find that the goblins have been duplicitous and we get to whack them. However, we still have to restore the "balance" in the caves... some new, hostile faction is in charge here, quite likely influenced by some outside source. If we can remove that influence, or at least find out what it is, I'm sure we can straighten this whole mess out. If we can't, we pick the most "evil" faction and whack em and see how that changes things. :P

I'm still not sure what is happening down here... given what the mermen said, I don't think we can expect a warm reception from the lizardman chief... We really need to learn as much as we can before we go whacking their leaders, especially.

[Asharad]

I am in agreement with whomever suggested that maybe we would prefer the lizardmen be in these caverns vs the goblins. The problem is the goblins will be very upset and likely take it out on human settlements.


Yeah, which is why at the end of this we have to ensure that the lizards win, I would think. That will cull the goblins numbers.

At the end of the day one side or another is going to have to be pretty much wiped out. I think we would prefer that be the goblins.

[Shiz]

Malacon "possessed" a lizardman-troll-ogremagi crossbreed and took control.

[Asharad]

Malacon "possessed" a lizardman-troll-ogremagi crossbreed and took control.


I know that and you know that but down the road it will be useful to know as much as we can and have as many allies as we can.

At some point (presumably) we are going to have to depose this lizard king, We've gotta try and do that with as little killing of the other lizards as possible AND in such a way as we can explain why we are doing it to them because after the fact we'll need them to kill as many goblins as they can (I'd think).

[Shiz]

Agreed but I am not risking my life in favor of over-eager diplomacy. Remember that 80% of the tribe is out fighting the goblins or on patrol. If we kill every living liz-man in here, they can recover easily enough.

Hopefully we can kill the new bad boss and get out before the rest of the tribe even knows what the hell happened.

[Lycos]

If we are still doing stuff this weekend, I will be out until late Sunday. I should be back to take control of Baladir late Sunday/Monday.

[Sagar]

I've been thinking about diplomacy, insight, intimidation and similiar skills.
I think the way I'd like to handle them is twofold.

First, and easiest, you tell me what skill you are using and the desired outcome and I'll set a DC and roll to see what happens.

Alternately, you can roll-play the encounter - telling me what you say and what you want to happen and I'll apply the appropriate skill and DC and let you know what happens.

Either way works for me.

One thing, though - if you are in an encounter with an intelligent Mob, anything you say in the adventure thread will be available for the Mob to hear. I'll have the mob act accordingly. Planning / strategy conversations should be kept in the discussion thread if you don't want the mob to hear (or whisper in the adventure thread).

[DinbinFanfoom]

Re: the bars

I think we're on the right track. What Brun was also suggesting (in case the accent got in the way) was that we jam some cloth items through the bars onto the floor on the other side. That way, when the bar reaches the bottom (or heaven forbid, we drop it) it won't be TOO loud, as it will land on the wadded cloth. Seems to me we've come across tons of the stuff down here...

[Zyzzyx]

Regarding the bars... I'm trying to think of creative ways that I might be able to use Prestidigitation to help us out here. Not sure what would or would not work (or be allowed).

Could I turn the bars into bunny rabbits? Change them to wood instead of iron? Make them disappear for a moment (and then just open the doors).

[Shiz]

How about casting a sound prestidigition that changes the clang of the bar falling into a splash of water or something.

[Zyzzyx]

I guess Presti to create a zone of silence might be a bit much. But... maybe use of Ghost Sound to alter an existing sound?

Whaddya say on that one, Sagar?

[Sagar]

I guess Presti to create a zone of silence might be a bit much. But... maybe use of Ghost Sound to alter an existing sound?

Whaddya say on that one, Sagar?

Any should you make to alter the existing should has to be as loud or louder then the existing sound. So you MIGHT be able to disguise what the sound was but you can't hide that there IS a sound nor where it came from.

[Shiz]

That ruling gives us lots of room. I am thinking a mighty roar.

[Zyzzyx]

P'raps some kind of water crashing into the cave? (though we are aways back from the water)

Or the sound of a tunnel collapsing?

[Shiz]

Your call. Something that will give the guy waiting to ambush us some pause.

[EricStratton]

The way I see it, two people can try to move the bar up (str) and 2 and try to stabilize it so it doesn't make noise (agi).

I've had some trouble figuring out exactly what one is supposed to roll for opening a door. The best I can tell, it is a strength attack. That is roll+1/2 level + str bonus vs DC. Likewise for the agility part. But no where in the DMG or PHB can I find that. Just a list of DC's.

If any of you can find a good reference, I am all ears! or is that eyes?
I assume you're asking what they suggest to use for opening a door. If so I can't find anything specific either. STR and AGI works for me since it's not as brute force as breaking it down.

[Asharad]

Left to my own devices I think I would turn D&D into a debating game.

[Asharad]

"I know you want to kill us, Mr. Gelatinous Cube, but have you thought about how that would effect the kids?"

"Not your kids, obviously, as you are an asexual (and I mean no offense by that) protoplasmic mass. You just split yourself in two and thus escape the filial bond all together. I just mean kids in general. The kids love us. Don't take their heroes away from them"

Roll for counter point!

[Sagar]

"I know you want to kill us, Mr. Gelatinous Cube, but have you thought about how that would effect the kids?"

"Not your kids, obviously, as you are an asexual (and I mean no offense by that) protoplasmic mass. You just split yourself in two and thus escape the filial bond all together. I just mean kids in general. The kids love us. Don't take their heroes away from them"

Roll for counter point!
<roll natural 20>

"You make a good point. My kids will love you too. And with your additional mass, I will have enough to finally split."

<engulfs Fandango>

[Asharad]

Nervous lizardman just pointed us towards his closet. So be careful Brun.

[Zyzzyx]

So, is this the leader dude, and he's just playing us? Or is he more of the leader's advisor, and really just trying to save his skin?

[DinbinFanfoom]

"Careful?" Is that an elf word? :D

If you want me to storm it, Fandango. Blink twice. I'll get in it's grille, whatever it is.

[Asharad]

Brun and Fandango are going to have to leave the party. They just signed a sitcom development deal with the WB.

[DinbinFanfoom]

LOL. I totally mistranslated what you said. I thought you meant that you'd picked up the old lizard silently signalling you. I didn't realize that you were referring to the OPEN gesture he made, instead.

Sorry, Brun is impulsive. :D

We really gotta come up with some military hand-signals or something.

[Asharad]

I don't remember at all why we thing Macarena is responsible for these lizards going bad. We decided that like a month ago.

Is there a reason? Should I just make something up about augers, wisemen and spirit talkers?

[Shiz]

Baladir and Trask got that idea from communing with their gods. Remember the image of Malacon holding puppet strings over the Barony?

[Asharad]

yeah, but why specifically the lizards? I'm sure there was a reason.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I think it might be safe to assume that all of our assumptions are wrong.

Our only REAL leads are this old guy, and the lizard we found in the cell:
"Who am I?" repeats the lizardman, in a weak voice. "No one.. anymore."
He gives a small cough which you realize is a short, bitter laugh.
"Oh my crime is heinous, alright. I care. I care about my tribe and I see. I am not gullible and blind like so many. But I am also too free with my tongue. I am suprised they haven't taken that out. They must be saving that little treat for later...."

His voice trails off into rasping, tearing coughs. As he recovers, his claws idly scratch at patches of dried, rough skin. He grimaces as the skin flakes off and blood oozes. "Please, for the sake of your people and mine, they must be stopped. They can't be allowed to turn us into killers. They will destroy all that we are....
They ...
They must be stopped..."
The only other reference to "outside influence" that I can remember is Oceanus:
As for color, all the lizardmen out scouts saw were green.

As for why the change, we do not know for sure. Tribes are ruled by a chieftain with various shaman and mystics acting as advisers. If a chieftain is particularly powerful, they can be elevated to the status of living deity and wield great influence on the whole tribe. There was another possibility mentioned but I .. ah.. missed what they were saying." He almost seems to be blushing as he says that. "It had something to do with some kind of outside influence."
Green = Normal
Black = Bad
"Outside Influence" could mean anything. Where did we get Malacon in all this?

[Lycos]

yeah, but why specifically the lizards? I'm sure there was a reason.

We don't know why the lizardmen specifically. We just know that he is influencing their current leader for the worst.

[Asharad]

We don't know why the lizardmen specifically. We just know that he is influencing their current leader for the worst.

Right, but how do we specifically know that?

[Lycos]

Right, but how do we specifically know that?

These guys are the agitators. Normally, they are very peaceful. But right now, they're acting like Hitler youth. So, there is some outside influence. Plus, with our visions, we definitely know it's Malacon.

[Asharad]

So we are going to have to bull**** this guy.

That's okay, I can do that.

[Zyzzyx]

That's what I remember. Tales from the past of getting along with the lizards, but now they're being way too aggressive.

[Shiz]

This guy might just be the clueless old fart he initially appeared to be.

[Shiz]

Baladir has the gem remember. If anyone escorts old dude to the jail, it should be Baladir. Fandango can furtively follow.

[EricStratton]

My last post in the adventure thread was meant to be spoken aloud. I definitely think if the old guy wants to go down there himself, we should at least send Baladir along.

[Asharad]

Sorry, again its been awhile and I dont remember what Malacon looks like.

[DinbinFanfoom]

He looks like a lich... bony... taut skin, robes, etc.

[Sagar]

When you last saw him, he was a misty spirit wafting away.

[Lycos]

Guys, it seems that this guy is trying to determine what we know more than anything else. Let's be wary about where we go with him. He might be playing us along.

[Zyzzyx]

You notice the Minister's skin is oily.
With this bit... and with his comments about this being a directive of the new god... yeah, I'm a bit concerned.

[Asharad]

If he wanted us dead eh could have sic'd the guards on us.

He could be being devious...he could just remember to do the little things to stay out of trouble. Hard to say.

Do any of our perceptive people notice anything?

[Shiz]

Do we know that is a healing potion?

[Asharad]

Very worse case scenario we have to kill this guy. At least we know there is a dragon around now.

[Zyzzyx]

Hmm... how interesting, and different, would our interactions here have been if one of us was dragonborn. :D Whaddya think, Sagar?

[Lycos]

Do any of our perceptive people notice anything?

My comment is based on my intuition skill.

[Sagar]

My comment is based on my intuition skill.

That insight was from very early in the conversation when he WAS pumping you for information.

[Lycos]

Ok, so take my previous comment with a grain of salt then.

[Sagar]

Note: This encounter has been a persuasional "combat". This is the one person who could help you with minimal bloodshed. But you needed to convince him you were willing and able to help.

To do so, you needed to have 4 successes before you got 2 failures.
Successes involved Diplomacy (vs DC 18), Intimidation (vs DC 25), Bluff (vs DC 20). You had 3 diplomacy successes and rescued the Prince (which actually counts double). You had one failure (the dive at the lizard).

This was a different type of encounter. You did very, very well.

[Shiz]

I was wondering when you were going to throw one of these at us. I like how you completely disguised it as a narrative.

[EricStratton]

Sagar, thanks for doing one of these. In 4e they are called "skill challenges" (for those that don't know). I have been racking my brain for at least a week now to figure out how one would run a skill challenge w/o it feeling out of context and "metagame". You did that very well.

[Sagar]

I was hoping you'd take the hint from my comment last week and from the diplomacy rolls I through in. I really liked the RP discussions. They were PERFECT!

[Asharad]

I really do think I like this part of the game more than all the dice rolling stuff (understanding that there was dice rolling in it).

In one of the recent Penny arcade podcasts (not the ones where they are playing D&D but one of the actual PA podcasts) they are discussing Gabe's D&D game . He liked playing Jim Darkmagic so much he started a game of his own. They actually talk about skill challenges and how Gabe likes that he can decide, without ever rolling a die, how the characters do based on what they come up with.

[Asharad]

Here is the comic they came up with out of the discussion. (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/3/4/)

Here's a link to the podcasts, (http://www.penny-arcade.com/padlc.xml) the one I'm refering to is called The Old Ways

Funnily, I was describing the podcast to Sarah and she said, "That sounds fun, we should do that!"

To which I replied, "Do what?"

And she said, "PLay Dungeons and Dragons! We could have friends over and you could be the...what do you call it?"

"Dungeon Master?"

"Yeah, that! You could be that and we could play."

[DinbinFanfoom]

* awe *

[Asharad]

I'm not sure I'm going to do it. I'm scared.

Nobody will have fun and I'll sour all the other dork **** I want to try to get her into!

[EricStratton]

Wow, that's great! Joy just rolls her eyes at my "nerdness". Tell Sarah she can play in my PbP game. :lowlol:

[DinbinFanfoom]

Back to the game...

I feel kinda bad stealing the limelight for this fight against Krestallon... It's the second "duel" Brun has participated in and I don't want to overshadow the other tank overall... we're all champs in this group.

[Shiz]

You have more dps (I think) and can self-heal with your armor and Comeback Strike.

[DinbinFanfoom]

You have more dps (I think) and can self-heal with your armor and Comeback Strike.
LOL, hard not to think of this in MMO terms, eh? I have the same problem. :D MMO's seem to have "standardized" our fantasy role-playing.
And yes, on the self-heals... second wind, armour, comeback, potion.

[Shiz]

You are right, though, if the king has WIL attacks, Baladir would be better suited. I don't expect that, however. Baladir's powers are for helping others, not himself.

[Lycos]

You are right, though, if the king has WIL attacks, Baladir would be better suited. I don't expect that, however. Baladir's powers are for helping others, not himself.

Exactly. I can't heal myself except by potion.

[Asharad]

I'd offer my services, as I am the one most likely to be able to kill him quickly. Course, I'm also very likely to BE killed in just a round or two.

If it looks like it is going bad for brun...well...I'll mess with some of the blackguards. Surely I can talk a couple of soldiers into a totally unprovoked attack on me. I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I SAY!

[Lycos]

I think we can count on the dragon interfering in the fight or joining the fight in the end. We should be prepared to protect the prince and ourselves. I think if half of us stand on one side of the prince and the other half on the other side, we should be able to protect him the best we can at that point.

Also, Brun will still get the Initiative and Perception bonuses from my feats as well.

[Shiz]

My first attack on the dragon will be Cascade of Light and I will make a big show of calling on Sehanine. This attack gives the dragon vulnerability 5 to all my attacks for the encounter (save ends.) I will follow that up with a Thundertusk Boar Strike (action point) Cause Fear gets fired in the next round. If the lizardmen see the dragon fleeing, it should support the good guys' morale.

We all have an action point and should use them aggressively early.

[Sagar]

The dialog was the second "encounter" so you all get another action point.

[Lycos]

The dialog was the second "encounter" so you all get another action point.

Two action points then?

It caps once we sleep for the night, right?

[Shiz]

1+1 = midget baseball.

[Sagar]

Two action points then?

It caps once we sleep for the night, right?

Correct. It resets to 1 after an extended rest.

[EricStratton]

I was posting Amaril's stat sheet and realized I'm not entirely sure I was the one that took Fandango's ring (when he got the cloak here (http://www.legendsofwestwood.org/forum/showthread.php?p=232662&highlight=ring#post232662)) and, if I was, I'm not sure what it does exactly. Help?

[Shiz]

PM sent.

[Asharad]

I imagine he's going to hit like a dragon.

I wonder about that.

I mean, we know he isn't a dragon.

If I put on a dracula costume, say a really convincing one, I may be able to scare kids but I can't turn into a bat.

I don't know how the D&D rules work, but if he can take whatever form he wants and have to corresponding powers...seems like he'd be bigger.

I think he looks like a dragon but has Malacon type powers.

[EricStratton]

I wonder about that.

I mean, we know he isn't a dragon.

If I put on a dracula costume, say a really convincing one, I may be able to scare kids but I can't turn into a bat.

I don't know how the D&D rules work, but if he can take whatever form he wants and have to corresponding powers...seems like he'd be bigger.

I think he looks like a dragon but has Malacon type powers.
What's a Malacon-type power, tho? The lich (IIRC) we fought previously? What if that was just the form he took at that time?

I'll put it this way for you:

What if you could turn into dracula? You'd be able to scare the kids *and* turn into a bat.

[Asharad]

What if you could turn into dracula? You'd be able to scare the kids *and* turn into a bat.


Right, but then why would I bother with something so uninteresting as scaring kids?

[EricStratton]

Right, but then why would I bother with something so uninteresting as scaring kids?
Cuz that's the way you swing, baby. That's the way you swing.

I do know where you're coming from and it's entirely possible. I'm going to try to make my check anyway...just in case. I figure we're going to have to fight him, and when we do either he's going to be a lich w/ lich powers or a dragon w/ dragon powers. It's just as likely that he'll go "Bah, the jig is up! *poof*" and he's back in lich form as it is he'll be a dragon. I imagine it'll depend on how Sagar's feeling at the time. :lowlol:

[Sagar]

Cuz that's the way you swing, baby. That's the way you swing.

I do know where you're coming from and it's entirely possible. I'm going to try to make my check anyway...just in case. I figure we're going to have to fight him, and when we do either he's going to be a lich w/ lich powers or a dragon w/ dragon powers. It's just as likely that he'll go "Bah, the jig is up! *poof*" and he's back in lich form as it is he'll be a dragon. I imagine it'll depend on how Sagar's feeling at the time. :lowlol:

No. Sagar already knows what's going on and how things should play out.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Thanks for the buff, Trask. I have a feeling I'm gonna need it.

[Shiz]

We all got buffed, but hopefully that went unnoticed.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Looks like KK is YTM. One of his specials was level six, so he's at least that. This is a fun fight!

[Zyzzyx]

I'm pondering a Ghost Sound whisper in the King's ear with the dragon voice of Malacon. Something to the effect of "You don't have a chance, why did I think you were worthy. I'm outta here."

[Asharad]

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do to help.

[Asharad]

Is the minister using his perception on the king? Can he make anything useful out?

[Lycos]

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do to help.

Keeping an eye on Malacon is worthwhile. Finding out what this magical influence is or where it is coming from would be helpful as well.

[EricStratton]

Keeping an eye on Malacon is worthwhile. Finding out what this magical influence is or where it is coming from would be helpful as well.
I second the eye on Malacon. I don't feel good about his not being in the arena w/ us at all.

[Sagar]

Do you really want to send a solo person out to confront a dragon?

[Zyzzyx]

Regarding Amaril's knowledge, I could use Ghost Sound and whisper it to Brun such that no one else should hear it.

[Lycos]

Do you really want to send a solo person out to confront a dragon?

Well, I didn't want him to confront him. Just watch from afar. But since this is coming from the DM.

Ummm, no. :roll:

[Asharad]

Do you really want to send a solo person out to confront a dragon?

Yeah, I originally was going to but then thought "If he is up to something, what am I going to do about it all by my lonesome?"

Regarding Amaril's knowledge, I could use Ghost Sound and whisper it to Brun such that no one else should hear it.

Who cares if anyone else hears? We aren't casting spells, you were just looking at the dude and noticed something.

[EricStratton]

If your stealth is good, he won't know you're there. If he does, run! :D

[DinbinFanfoom]

Something that's been bugging me for a while... I'd like to discuss how "x modifier" plays out... Especially as how it relates to some specific attack types. For example:

Reaping Strike
Hit: 1w + strength modifier damage
Miss: Half strength modifier damage, strength modifier damage if using a 2h weapon

Cleave
Hit: 1w + strength modifier damage, adjacent enemy takes strength modifier damage

Comeback Strike:
Hit: 2w + strength modifier damage, spend a healing surge

The question is:

What DOES "strength modifier damage" include? In the case of most hits, I've been using (base attrib mod)+(axe enh)+(weapon focus). Is that right? So in the case of Brun making a str attack, it'd be 5+1+1=7. However, I've been, in the case of the first two attacks (which deal damage on a miss, in the case of Reaping Strike, and to a secondary target, for Cleave) I've been using the flat attribute modifier (sans enhancement, focus) for +5 (which is what a 20 stat gives you). Should I be including the +1 for the axe and +1 for the focus? It makes sense that if my normal damage is 1d12+7, then the Reaping Strike miss damage would be 7, not 5 (for simplicity sake) and the Cleave secondary target damage at 7 as well. How do you guys read it?

If it helps, the PHB 276:
DAMAGE ROLLS
✦ Roll the damage indicated in the power description.
If you?re using a weapon for the attack, the damage is
some multiple of your weapon damage dice.
✦ Add the ability modifier specified in the power
description. Usually, this is the same ability modifier
you used to determine your base attack bonus for
the attack.
In addition, any of the following factors might apply to
a damage roll:
✦ Racial or feat bonuses
✦ An enhancement bonus (usually from a magic
weapon or an implement)
✦ An item bonus
✦ A power bonus
✦ Untyped bonuses

[Sagar]

I read it as +5+1+1.
5 for strength
1 for magic
1 for focus.

As far as I can tell, magic and focus apply to any damage done with the weapon.

[Shiz]

Brun, you are +7 to hit whenever you swing that axe in combat.

Reaping Strike is 5 dmg on a miss because it refers to your str mod only. Remember, the attack missed so no bonuses involving your weapon apply. You are basically battering your enemy with your fists and the pommel.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Exactly. Brun, you are +7 whenever you swing that axe in combat.
OK, I will remember that from now on. It didn't make sense to me why a normal strike was +7 and the specials were +5, but it was in the wording that I got confused... No need for any retro changes, my own fault.

[Shiz]

See my edit.

[DinbinFanfoom]

See my edit.
That's what I thought, but here's the thing... from the PHB (77) for other powers compared:

Covering Attack:
You launch a dizzying barrage of thrusts at your enemy, compelling him to give you all his attention. Under the cover of your ferocious attack, one of your allies can safely retreat from that same foe.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and an ally adjacent to the target can shift 2 squares.

Does that mean the attack only does 2[w]+5 on a hit? The actual text "+ Strength modifier damage" is the same as in:

Reaping Strike:
You punctuate your scything attacks with wicked jabs and small cutting blows that slip through your enemy?s defenses.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.
Miss: Half Strength modifier damage. If you?re wielding a two-handed weapon, you deal damage equal to your Strength modifier.

See what I'm talking about? What makes "strength modifier damage" in one different than the other? Given the "1[w]+Strength modifier damage" for the NORMAL reaping strike hit means +7, why would it be +5 on a miss? It seems to be worded exactly the same.

[Sagar]

Brun, you are +7 to hit whenever you swing that axe in combat.

Reaping Strike is 5 dmg on a miss because it refers to your str mod only. Remember, the attack missed so no bonuses involving your weapon apply. You are basically battering your enemy with your fists and the pommel.


Ahh.. agreed. So weapon bonuses don't apply.
Got it.

[Shiz]

I see what Brun is saying now. My answer is that weapon bonuses only apply on a hit. Those bonuses are implied in the [W] part of the description because those bonuses are part of base weapon damage.

This is subject to house ruling, I guess, but we have been using pure STR mod so far so we might as well stick with it.

For example, there are feats that give +2 dmg when you have CA in the PHB2. If you had CA and used Reaping Strike and missed, would the +2 apply? I don't think so.

[DinbinFanfoom]

*nods* I'll certainly continue that way if that's the ruling. I've done some googling and a LOT of people seem confused about this too... it has to do with wording, I think...

In the case of "Reaping Strike", it's easy to further muddy the waters by thinking "you missed, how can you do damage?" but it's really an attack that NEVER misses because it's a flurry of attacks, and some will hit, for a minimum of n damage.

Some posts in other boards reference this argument as "you don't modify STATIC damage amounts!" but then the counterargument is "this isn't a static amount, a static is '+2 to x stat', this clearly references the same stat used in calculations for EVERY OTHER ATTACK."

So it could go other way... my personal take is that they would have meant to keep it simple... and keep the same value for the same description each time. But that's just me.

[DinbinFanfoom]

feats that give +2 dmg when you have CA in the PHB2. If you had CA and used Reaping Strike and missed, would the +2 apply? I don't think so.
That depends... is the "+2" part of the "(stat) damage modifier", which is the actual name of the attribute in the case of Reaping Strike? It doesn't look like it... I think the confusion lies in if "strength damage modifier" is JUST the mod provided by the the STR stat, or if it encompases the STR stat, weapon bonus and focus.

I'm afraid I don't know anymore. I'll happily continue with +5 though, I didn't mean to make it all fuzzy-like.

[DinbinFanfoom]

The more I google it, the more it seems most people are playing it that "strength modifier damage" only includes the damage from STR (+5 in Brun's case) NOT the entire "strength modifier damage" that is used everywhere else to indicate STR+ENH+FOC. So I'll keep going as I have been. I do think the manual writers could clean that up... it's very confusing how the same term can mean different things.

Edit: I think I've made sense of it... This thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-1037993.html helps a lot.
It specifically mentions that some of the PREGENNED (stock) characters who only the STR mod being used, which clarifies things a bit, if not totally. It looks like their INTENTION was to only use the attribute mod, and that weapon enh and focus are "damage roll modifiers" whereas the reaping/cleave extra damage is more... static.

Still, very fuzzily come to.

[Shiz]

Baladir will ask the minister, "If this current King is close to death at the end of this fight is it ok for us to keep him alive, or do your people expect to see him dead and the conflict at an end? There might be a chance that we can keep the current king from dying."


Trask is convinced the real king is dead and this is some kind of illusion/shell covering a more powerful humanoid. What Trask cannot figure out is how.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I'm thinking a Saugrim (or whatever that guy was we found next to the Prince).

[Shiz]

I saw chainmail when you cut the King. Just a flash of it. Like the illusion faltered. But Brun doesn't know that. None of you do! Sahuagin don't wear armor.

[Zyzzyx]

But hearing that there seems to be someone else under this illusion now, makes that a moot point. It'll be interesting to see once we pull the mask off of this guy.

Baladir pulls the mask off the 'King' and its one of the merchants from town.

/cue cheesy Scooby Doo background tunes

"I was all set to take over this tribe and have them plunder stuff for me. And I would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling adventurers."

[Zyzzyx]

So...

I'm thinking the dragonborn 'king' is going to have an interesting time with the unhappy lizzies around here. And seeing he's fairly well hurt (bloodied, right?), maybe we just leave him to them? Though, might have to deal with the blackguards.

[EricStratton]

Couldn't hurt to try to find out what he knows if the lizards let him live long enough. We've already let Malacon go this long. Can't hurt to wait.

[Asharad]

I assume the goblins are outside waiting for something.

I've got a bit of a plan when we get to that part.

[Shiz]

Someone with high Diplo bargain with the Prince so we can use the flaming sword against Malacon (and hopefully keep it.) The Prince may not want to use a "tainted" weapon, for example.

[Asharad]

Really nice job, DB.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Really nice job, DB.
Thanks! Could have been worse! :P I was expecting a longer fight, but glad it didn't go that way. You guys found the "key"...

[Shiz]

Just so everyone knows, I adjusted my Perception -2 because you cannot gain the benefit of Skill Training twice on a skill. You can take Skill Focus (+3) which is what I intended but I used the +5 mod from Skill Training. I just haven't seen a lot of feats useful to a ranged cleric. That is, before Distant Advantage from PHB2.

[DinbinFanfoom]

This very issue was something I was gonna revisit Brun's sheet to check... bonuses of same type do not stack, something I have to verify I'm not doing. (feat, racial, class, etc)

[Zyzzyx]

I ran into that in character creation. Was going to stack a couple feats for initiative. Seemed obvious, couldn't see why no one was doing it for wizzie builds. Then I saw why. Oops.

[Shiz]

Just so everyone knows, I adjusted my Perception -2 because you cannot gain the benefit of Skill Training twice on a skill. You can take Skill Focus (+3) which is what I intended but I used the +5 mod from Skill Training. I just haven't seen a lot of feats useful to a ranged cleric. That is, before Distant Advantage from PHB2.

I was right the first time, I just forgot that elves get +2 Perception and nature. The official D&D Char Generator shows +16 Perception.

[Asharad]

What was out plan with the goblins?

Theoretically they were supposed to attack outside and make a diversion, but none of the lizards seem to know **** about that.

We were supposed to signal them?

[Shiz]

They were supposed to pull the patrols away and then we were going to give them the caves.

[Sagar]

And no lizard patrols came in behind you as you explored. They seem to have kept their part of the bargin.

[Asharad]

I suggest this...we ask the prince permission to use the body of one of the dead lizardmen. We are sorry he died, etc. but he can still serve his people.

The prince gathers his forces and our guys somewhere in a good ambush spot right inside the cave entrances. I'll stagger out of the cave carrying the dead lizardman, yelling for the head goblin (whatever his name is). I'll bluff him that everybody is dead but me and that I want my share of the unexpectedly huge amount of gold we found.

Hopefully they'll rush into the caves and right into the ambush. That make sense as a plan?

[Shiz]

We don't even know if these lizardmen want to stay here. Remember they came from another place.

[Asharad]

Valid point. We should ask.

[Lycos]

Yeah, we need to work this out between the Gnoll leader and the Lizard Prince. Killing one group or another is not going to be the solution.

[Asharad]

Goblins, you mean, right?

It's the goblins we are "working" for.

And it looks like the lizards are leaving anyway.

[Lycos]

I thought it was the gnolls. Ok, goblins.

[Sagar]

The goblins and gnolls have a healthy competition going. They let their excitable young fight each other to vent steam. Keeps the excess populations down and prevents them from raiding out into more dangerous (Human) areas.

[EricStratton]

As a DM I know I should know this but someone help me out.

Amaril gets +7 to hit w/ this implement powers: +4 (CHA) + 2 (1/2 level) + 1 (+1 rod). But he only gets +5 to dmg. So do you not get the +2 (1/2 level) for dmg? That's only to hit?

[Shiz]

Yes.

[Zyzzyx]

If this was EQ1, would half the party be standing around waiting for an add while a mob was chewing on our tank? No.
Looking at the actual progression of actions, I don't think we weren't standing around waiting. Does seem that way though with the confusion of whether Croc1 was still visible, and the general delay between posts.

[Sagar]

I found that I can delete the mob and then add it back to the scene without it showing back up. I'll do that from now on.

[Sagar]

In this situation, I want you to be clear what you face.
Right now, this is a continuation of the existing encounter. If you want to break this into a second encounter - letting people surge back to full health and regaining encounter powers that may have been used - you need to stall the dragon for 5 minutes.

Each round of stalling will last 1 minute.
You can use flattery or blarney (bluff), diplomacy, or intimidation as you see fit. Please discuss here - anything said in the game thread will be heard by the dragon. Only post in the game thread what you want to say to the dragon.

If you don't want to stall, feel free to issue a challenge and the dragon will be happy to oblige you.

(note: We don't have a dragon icon so I used the fire - it seemed so much more appropriate than the spider.)

[Asharad]

I can bluff him for awhile, see what happens.

[Shiz]

Nicely played, Sagar. I was worried if we went in full power we might win too easily.

[Lycos]

Right now, this is a continuation of the existing encounter. If you want to break this into a second encounter - letting people surge back to full health and regaining encounter powers that may have been used - you need to stall the dragon for 5 minutes.


Is anyone in this situation? I know Brun is out of daily powers. Who needs to regain an encounter power?

[Shiz]

I have used my racial encounter power and Cause Fear. Witchfire is gone, sadly.

Sagar, how will initiative work if we attack him?

[Asharad]

I've blown one encounter power.

[Lycos]

Well, we should try for the stall then.

[Shiz]

I know he is a dragon and all, Lycos, but have some faith in Pelor! As long as we don't bunch up like bowling pins, we should have a shot. The real question is how do we keep him from flying or swimming away.

[Sagar]

You have used one of your two healing words and Brun is wounded.
Everyone has two action points except Brun. If the two encounters become seperate, Brun will gain an action point before the dragon fight.

I wouldn't be too cocky. This is a level 5 epic mob. It will not be a cake walk. I was more worried about how to rescue you if things went badly...

[Lycos]

Exactly, we need to spread out just in case he has another breath attack available.

If he flies or flees where we can't go. He gets away. Nothing we can do about that until we get to higher levels.

[Shiz]

Brun could Second Wind while Fandango is talking. Hmm...Is that something the dragon would see?

[Sagar]

Fandango, what is it you are trying to accomplish with your bluff? I don't know how to resolve it based on what you said.

[Shiz]

I need a ruling from the squad if they want me to risk aggro by taking a Second Wind for Brun. It would heal her to full.

Also, is Amaril at 23hps even after my heal?

[Zyzzyx]

I've used my Daily (Flaming Sphere), and one Encounter (Icy Rays).

Still have one Encounter left (Grasping Shadows).


Also, going to be AFK for a bit this morning. Taking my mom to the airport, then running some errands. Should be back ~11am PST. If I'm seriously holding things up, someone can go ahead (ES?) and have Solak fire off something.

[Shiz]

I've used my Daily (Flaming Sphere).

Bugger! We have been busy this day.

[Sagar]

I need a ruling from the squad if they want me to risk aggro by taking a Second Wind for Brun. It would heal her to full.

Also, is Amaril at 23hps even after my heal?

Amaril was healed to full. I haven't update the map, I guess.

If you use SW and don't get the encounter reset, she can't SW again.

[Shiz]

Right but she wouldn't have to waste a standard action either.

You didn;t answer the aggro question.

[Sagar]

You don't know for sure, but any action other than talking will probably provoke her.

[Asharad]

Fandango, what is it you are trying to accomplish with your bluff? I don't know how to resolve it based on what you said.

Bluff and intimidate can't work like its a skill check to open a door. There's gotta be flexibility.

The point of the skill is to trick,fool, and stall. Here I am trying to fool him into talking with us and not attacking immediately and I've given him several conversational in's to the end, I think.

[Sagar]

Ahh.. ok. I just couldn't figure out what you wanted to do with your bluff.
I got it now.

You're preferred outcome is stalling.

[Asharad]

Ahh.. ok. I just couldn't figure out what you wanted to do with your bluff.
I got it now.

You're preferred outcome is stalling.

Yeah, we're just chatting here. :lowlol:

[EricStratton]

I just reloaded and saw that Amaril's interjection is a bit out of place w/ the back and forth between Fandango and Baladir.

I'm going to edit it to be more inline w/ the current conversation.

[Sagar]

If you want to know more about a monster, someone has to ask what they remember about it. I will then roll vs the appropriate skill to determine what, if anything, they remember.

In this case, it is a natural beast so you roll against nature to see what you know.

[Greebo]

Wow, all that for 6 seconds and you've got to drag this out for 5 minutes...

Y'all are skereeewed!

[Lycos]

Wow, all that for 6 seconds and you've got to drag this out for 5 minutes...

Y'all are skereeewed!

Yeah, well, we either finish this encounter quickly with us dead, or we'll bluff our way into next week.

I'm hoping for the latter.

[Sagar]

Wow, all that for 6 seconds and you've got to drag this out for 5 minutes...

Y'all are skereeewed!

Hush you.. go back to your own thread!

I am assuming their actual conversations are much more elaborate and long winded and each exchange lasts 1 minute. :p

[Asharad]

Should I continue to try an bluff?

[Zyzzyx]

The cloud (8+8 vs Fort 15) engulfs Solak, (8+8 vs Fort 17) and (19+8 vs Fort 21) Brunhilde, but (1+8 vs Fort 15) Amaril, (7+8 vs Fort 16) Trask and (8+8 vs Fort 17) Baladir avoid serious harm.

You mentioned the poison cloud went over most of the party, Fandango being out of range, right? But what's the extra roll up there for? A roll for Fandango anyway?

[Sagar]

You mentioned the poison cloud went over most of the party, Fandango being out of range, right? But what's the extra roll up there for? A roll for Fandango anyway?
I did the rolls for everyone, then put them grouped them according to who got hit and who didn't. That was the attack against Baladir and, apparently, I didn't get it deleted all the way. I was having cat assisted issues at that time.

[Sagar]

Should I continue to try an bluff?

Now is time to kick ass.

[Zyzzyx]

A'right... just wondering.


Regarding the next move, I haven't had a chance to think on mine yet, leaving for a meeting in 30 seconds, then will be out for ~2 hours until I get home.

[Zyzzyx]

Regarding Yserbian's defenses....

8+7+1 vs Will - hit
7+7 vs Ref - "miss badly"

;)


/ooc-ooc question: So, would this be what is referred to as 'metagaming'?

[Shiz]

Guys, we need to get in the cave. If she can fly, we cannot win. There also might be something in the cave we can use. I don't think Malacon is there in a physical form. Maybe we can find the focus for his power and break it.

If I am wrong, we re-roll! LOLCAKES!

[Asharad]

I've got her set up for a good round of attacks, assuming you have anything you can do at range. Feel free to move towards the cave, but take advantage of her while she is vulnerable.

[Asharad]

Also, I don't think bunching up in a cave against an enemy with (I assume) a ton of aoes in a good idea.

[Shiz]

She can fly away at any time and we cannot stop her. Don't we want to beat her? A dragin cave should be large, I would think. I also wonder if she is still under an influence that we can maybe stop. If she just does flyby attacks for the next 10 rounds, we die since we will all have to be bunched up around Baladir (who has marked her) to hit her.

We have burned our big attacks and dealt 64 damage. She isn't bloodied. Let's assume 150hps.

That saidm I haven't even used a heal yet and no one has had to second wind. I also have my 2 APs left. I am annoyed she shrugged off that vulnerability so early.

[Asharad]

OKay, but right now she is vulnerable. Right now she is blind and open to attacks.

I don't mind running for the cave next round, but I've effectively wasted my daily if some of us dont attack now, while she's blind.

[Shiz]

Good point. Brun is still stunned, too, I think. Not leaving her behind.

[Asharad]

I bet she's got a lot more hit points than we are figuring, too.

[Lycos]

I think Ash is right, and I agree with getting into the cave. Once inside, we need you magic folk to look for a controlling device that Malacon is using in there.

[Asharad]

Fight and move towards the cave this round, get into the cave next?

is the cave north or south?

[Lycos]

Fight and move towards the cave this round, get into the cave next?

is the cave north or south?

North... H 1-3 and I 1-3

[Asharad]

Let's come to some sort of agreement.

If you guys think you can pick up the stunned members and get into the cave with them, okay, we can do that. I'm not convinced bunching up with the death machine is a great idea, but am willing to give it a try. I hate to lose a CA opportunity, but I guess I can use the action point later.

if not, let's attack now and move next round. I think not pressing any advantage we have, no matter how small, is a mistake.

But whatever we do, lets do it in conjunction with each other.

[Shiz]

Wait for the stunned to become unstunned and then we move towards the cave with Baladir covering the rear, keeping Yserbian marked. We should try and not bunch up too much.

[Sagar]

Several things:
1. AFAICT, the -5 and -2 do not stack. They are very similiar powers so the stronger one applies.

2. The dragon is blinded and gives CA.

3. The stunned are no longer stunned as of the end of the dragon's 2nd round turn.

4. I forgot to give you your roll5 numbers. I was going to use Roll3 since you have only one target, but I think you might need the 5 so I'll do that in a few minutes.

5. Is it at all possible that a dragon would have protections in her cave?

[Asharad]

5. Is it at all possible that a dragon would have protections in her cave?


I think so.

I'm basing this on nothing other than what seems logical. It seems logical you don't want to fight a dragon in it's lair. It seems logical that, while the dragon could fly away, it doesn't seem real likely (I mean, how embarrassing).

While the flyby and the moving around thing is annoying, it seems logical we can mitigate that somewhat. I don't know what kind of close up attacks this thing has, but its a frickin dragon, so I assume they are bad-ass (that's a guess). Also, I assume our melee ranged guys could run up to her. When she is hovering is she out of melee range? if so, then I guess that's an argument for running her into the cave.

I could be really wrong on all of this and there may be some real benefits to attacking the dragon in a closed in space. Spread out seems better for us, worse for her.

[Shiz]

If she is flying, what does that mean? I assume it means she is not melee-able except when she flys by. That means Baladir and Brun have to stay close together.

[Shiz]

If she is flying, what does that mean? I assume it means she is not melee-able except when she flys by. That means Baladir and Brun have to stay close together.

[Shiz]

If she is flying, what does that mean? I assume it means she is not melee-able except when she flys by. That means Baladir and Brun have to stay close together.

I also asked Sagar if Dragons are only 1 square creatures. I would think they are larger than medium.

[Sagar]

I forgot to answer that.
The dragon is a large creature and takes 2 squares. Assume the head is square 1 and it continues into the square behind it.

For the sake of convenience, we'll say the dragon is always pointing N/S and the head is S.

Oh, the dragon also has reach, as is evident from the attack on Fandango.

[Asharad]

But can we hit her when she is hovering?

I mean, right now if someone were to run up to her, would they be able to stab her?