Group 3: Mechanics discussion

[Sagar]

I've been researching about how to streamline combat and make it a bit more immersive.

I found several good ideas for DMs (which you will have to wait and see) and one that involves the players.

Basically, it's called Roll 5. I give you your next 5 rolls. You apply them as you wish to your next 5 attacks. This gives you some strategic options.
Want to use that daily attack to maximum effect? Use the high number.
Got a chance to re-roll an attack? Use the low number.
Got a save coming? Use the 11 (unless it is for disease or poison).

What do you think? Interested?

[Lycos]

I'm game.

[EricStratton]

I'll give it a try, sure.

[Asharad]

You're the boss, boss. Whatever you say.

Although I'm not sure how that will actually speed things up...I guess it certainly will help you not have to always be rollin.

[Zyzzyx]

Although I thought Sagar mentioned that he 'prerolled' large batches of numbers and then just went down the list.

If that's how you're doing it now, not sure how this will streamline the combat sequences. *shrug*

[Sagar]

I do pre-roll number. Before, I was doing it 1 number at a time with a random die roller on my Palm.
This morning, I had an epiphany and made an Excel spreadsheet to make a whole bunch of random D20, D12, D10, D8, D6 and D4 rolls (duh!).

Mostly, this change is to give players more strategic opportunities in combat. It will, though, simplify my life in that I don't have to look at your attack value on the screen then find my roll sheet and get the next roll then find the mob's AC and then go back to the screen to put in the results. I'll only need the discrete mob combat sheet and the computer screen to resolve PC related combat.

As a player, I would love a setup like this :)

[Shiz]

This answers my question in the adventure thread. You wrote that we apply them to our next 5 attacks but then said we can use them for other things like saves. Basically, any d20 roll?

[Sagar]

Any d20 roll. Unless it obviously a bad roll dump attempt.
Like
"On my next turn, I am going to search the room for an invisible baby green turtle. My perception roll is 1".

Actually, lets just use these for attacks and saves and active skill checks (like picking locks, climbing walls, etc). Intimidation is a valid use. Perception, insight and other things where knowing the roll provides undue advantage are out.

[Sagar]

Oh, and if you use up your rolls, I'll hand out new ones. AoE's will chew through these quickly. With AoE's, though, you can choose which mob gets the good rolls...

[Zyzzyx]

I'll give it a shot, but will admit now that I'm not too sure about it.

Yeah, there's still an unknown of what the DM's dice will be, but rather enjoy not having a clue what's gonna come up for either roll.

[Shiz]

If it makes it easier for Sagar, then I am all for it. Things can still happen that will make knowing the rolls interesting.

[Lycos]

If it makes it easier for Sagar, then I am all for it. Things can still happen that will make knowing the rolls interesting.

I agree.

[Sagar]

This will only make my job a little easier. I mostly did it because, as a player, I thought it would be fun.

I am open to formation.

[Zyzzyx]

Continued thought... it does make it interesting, and a bit difficult in a way, of choosing when to use natural 1s. Hmmm...

[Lycos]

My first thought is that this gives the character a lot more control which makes it easier for us to work the numbers to our advantage. But it also leaves out some of the surprise, for better or worse. But I am willing to see how it goes.

[Sagar]

You still don't know the damage. That will remain random.

[Zyzzyx]

/nitpick on

We'll know the damage on a natural 20. ;)

/nitpick off



(sidenote: did you know the etymology on nitpick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitpicking)? Just looked at that m'self... interesting.)

[Sagar]

Not necessarily. Crits with magic weapons do +xDy damage.
Crits with high crit weapons do maxW+W damage.
You have a pretty good idea, though, with a non-magical, normal crit weapon.

[Shiz]

I have to say I like the Roll 5. I rarely used my bow before because +8 vs AC was usually worse than +7 vs REF. Now I don't have to worry about playing that 5% better chance with a power.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I agree. It makes for some interesting (and slightly more effective) moves. Overall it definitely advantages the players.

[Zyzzyx]

I agree. It makes for some interesting (and slightly more effective) moves. Overall it definitely advantages the players.
Aye. I'm not fully sold on it yet, but I probably will be quite soon. While Amaril was first to play with using a low roll to avoid friendly fire in an AE, that was certainly something I was thinking about early on as well. And was also able to use to good effect.

So there is an advantage, but also made me think a fair bit more about when and where to choose an attack that would miss. Which is a good thing. The thinking that is, not the missing.



Oh, and after listening to the two latest PVP/PA podcasts last night, I'd like to thank Sagar for not announcing who and where the minions are. Maybe knowledge that they're present, but not pointing them out. Unless it would be rather obvious (fighting a hulking group of orcs and among them are some scrawny ones, barely able to hold a sword).

[DinbinFanfoom]

Yeah, I like not knowing which are minions, unless it comes out via RP, or insight somehow, etc. I'm not sure why he announced that in the podcast (I heard it too).

[EricStratton]

I don't like being down to one number. I feel like I need to come up w/ some use for it so I don't have to waste a turn firing what I know will be a miss. But other than that, it's interesting.

[Zyzzyx]

Perhaps then a Roll 5-10 system? Rolls come in sets of 5. Get two sets to start with. Finish the first five, request another set as you start to use the second set of five.

???

[DinbinFanfoom]

Perhaps then a Roll 5-10 system? Rolls come in sets of 5. Get two sets to start with. Finish the first five, request another set as you start to use the second set of five.
???
I think that might be having us "plan" too far in advance. I know I would. It ALREADY feels a bit like cheating. :D

[Zyzzyx]

Hey, just rambling with ideas. No feelings hurt if they get thrown out.

[DinbinFanfoom]

No problem. Hrm, I'm not sure how much work it'd be for Sagar, but if we make sure to include "(Rolls remaining: x, y, z)" in every character action post, he could always add a "(Next rolls: r, s, t, u v)" when he posted, though it's always hard when you don't know if someone is gonna AE and use (like Brun just did, 4 D20 rolls at once).

[Sagar]

In general, if you run out of numbers, I will fill in the missing ones with random rolls. I'd prefer this if you are just missing 1 or 2 numbers.

If you know you will be using AoE's and burning through a lot of numbers, requesting more in advance works well too.

Overall, I like the simplicity and, as a player, I would LOVE it. Challenge wise, though, it really gives advantage to the players. As a group, you are already pretty heroic. With the Roll5, you just laid waste to 13 level 4-6 mobs with very very little damage to yourselves. Part of that was the kinda accidental players only first round. Part was due to the wave nature of the attacks. Part was due to very effective use of skills.

I'll have to see how things work out in the next few fights.

[Zyzzyx]

As a group, you are already pretty heroic. With the Roll5, you just laid waste to 13 level 4-6 mobs with very very little damage to yourselves. Part of that was the kinda accidental players only first round. Part was due to the wave nature of the attacks. Part was due to very effective use of skills.

Solak hears this, wanders over to the Flaming Sphere, and gives it a big hug.

"My new friend..."


"But, do better next time, OK?!"

[Sagar]

The flaming sphere affectionately singes a lock of Solak's hair.

[Sagar]

AFAIK, you cannot maintain the sphere outside of an encounter.

[Shiz]

Correct but there shouldn;t be a need to since it is an encounter power.

[Zyzzyx]

The flaming sphere affectionately singes a lock of Solak's hair.
Ah... nice to have that +5 fire resist. ;)
AFAIK, you cannot maintain the sphere outside of an encounter.
Understood. But the way you commented (or I thought you had) awhile ago about the sphere located where it was a round+ after the last death, wasn't real clear the encounter was over. I'll admit, I pushed it a bit.
Correct but there shouldn;t be a need to since it is an encounter power.
Oh, and its actually my Daily. Just that it only lasts for an encounter.

[Sagar]

Let's talk Saving Throws:

I said this before, if you get a save-able condition, you can use one of your Roll5 values for the save. Most things only require a save of 10 or higher. If you do not specify that you will use a roll5 value, I will roll it randomly at the end of your turn.

Others can help with your save. In the case of poison, someone else can roll heal. If their roll + heal skill is over 10, you get to add +2 to your ST.
Depending on the situation, up to 4 other people can help (for a total of +8). In this case, I would probably limit assistence to 2 "healers" for a total potential bonus of +4.

The "assistance" thing can be used for other activities like opening doors, breaking down walls, climbing, etc.

[Shiz]

Got it, but in your initial Roll 5 post you wrote "Got a save coming? Use the 11 (unless it is for disease or poison)."

[Lycos]

Got it, but in your initial Roll 5 post you wrote "Got a save coming? Use the 11 (unless it is for disease or poison)."

But I think later he changed his mind on the saving throws.

[Shiz]

I saw that but there are saving throws for lots of things so I didn't assume he was including poison and disease. Disease is still a lot different than poison.

[Sagar]

This type of poison is just a standard continuing damage thing.