Group 4: The Beginning Discussion

[EricStratton]

/ooc does cover apply to melee attacks?

/ooc +6 is once again a residual of level 2 sheet GRR sorry.
I checked both the DMG and the PHB wrt cover before resolving combat last night just to be sure and, AFAICT, it applies to any attacks.

Not a problem. I appreciate the numbers b/c, to be honest, I probably would've forgotten the +1 from charge. Still getting used to tracking all this stuff. I can see why ppl have complained that while 4e was supposed to simplify things it's still not simple.

[Quervo]

it is about as difficult as 3.5e the only real change to the game was some of the combat values and the use of power effects

people just complain about it being harded because they already know 90% of the values from the 3.5 and dont was to take the time to relean the new values.

IE charge was a +2 in 3.5 but a +1 in 4

[noptov52]

I thought the Kobold Shiz attacked was standing in the open (next to a rock, but not behind it)?

[Shiz]

I did not miss due to cover. I missed because I got a 4. Cover applied to the blue shirted guy by the road.

[EricStratton]

If it wasn't clear that the dark green is trees and would grant cover, I apologize and will do better next fight.

[Shiz]

My AC is 15, not 13. None of my defenses are 13. Are you reducing my defense for CA instead of adding 2 to the roll? vs 15 won't change the hit/miss results but I am confused since the first attack against Rend was vs 13.

15 = 10+DEX+leather

[EricStratton]

My AC is 15, not 13. None of my defenses are 13. Are you reducing my defense for CA instead of adding 2 to the roll? vs 15 won't change the hit/miss results but I am confused since the first attack against Rend was vs 13.
I forgot to give you armor, I think. You have leather now. I'll change what needs to be changed.

[EricStratton]

FYI I think I forgot to add 2 to Sagar's attack for CA (due to flanking). It still would've missed but full disclosure and all that.

[Sagar]

It's hard keeping up with it all, isn't it :)

[EricStratton]

It really is.

[EricStratton]

/ooc you have to move to O6 first to line up your charge but you have plenty of Speed for that. If you attack from L8 you get +2 from flanking which is better than +1 from charging. Lastly, you could move to M10 and Great Cleave both of them, although I am not advocating that. I would recommend the flanking attack.
How much time do you want me to give you guys to discuss moves like this? I've basically been making the moves as I see them posted.

[noptov52]

Did I kill the kobold I attacked? Barbarians get special events when they bloody / kill enemies.

[Shiz]

How much time do you want me to give you guys to discuss moves like this? I've basically been making the moves as I see them posted.

Go with what is posted.

[EricStratton]

Did I kill the kobold I attacked? Barbarians get special events when they bloody / kill enemies.
You did kill him. You're a Thaneborn Barb. Thaneborns get a bonus against the creature that they've bloodied. Since you just straight up killed the critter, there's no bonus to get.

Is that what you're talking about or is there another bonus to get?

[Shiz]

Did I kill the kobold I attacked? Barbarians get special events when they bloody / kill enemies.

You should bake that into your action post with a "if I kill/bloody the kobold, I will....."

[noptov52]

You did kill him. You're a Thaneborn Barb. Thaneborns get a bonus against the creature that they've bloodied. Since you just straight up killed the critter, there's no bonus to get.

Is that what you're talking about or is there another bonus to get?

I'd like to use Roar of Triumph.

Barbarian Feature
Your howl of victory shakes your enemies to the core, as they know your blood thirst is not yet quenched.
Encounter ✦ Fear, Primal, Free Action Close burst 5
Trigger: Your attack reduces an enemy to 0 hit points
Target: Each enemy in burst
Effect: Each target takes a -2 penalty to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

[Shiz]

So 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 would be affected for our attacks in Round 2! NICE!

[EricStratton]

Yup, I totally missed Roar of Triumph. I'll add it to the end of your round 1 turn and update the statuses of all the enemies in the burst accordingly.

[EricStratton]

Free Action: say, "Maz, shift north one to flank the other kobold and I'll shift south to reflank this one.

Shift south to flank Kobold7 and attack with Righteous Brand: +5 AC (flank and cover offset), d12+5 damage, Maz gets +3 to hit vs K7.

If K7 is dead, I'll shift 1 north and attack K6 and give +3 to hit to Cilene.
The trees are difficult terrain so you can't shift into a tree square unless you have the ability to shift at least 2 squares. At least as far as I can tell....

[Sagar]

Oh.. right. Duh!

So I'll just attack this one. If it dies, I'll move to help Cilene

[EricStratton]

Oh.. right. Duh!

So I'll just attack this one. If it dies, I'll move to help Cilene
Oh pheew. B/c if I was wrong I had done that kobold's turns all wrong. He can shift all over the place. It's probably a good thing you guys got him while he was in the woods. :lowlol:

[EricStratton]

/ooc stupid question is adjacent concidered diaginal? IE is K6(pos P8) considered adjacent to K7(pos P9), If so greenflame blade does 1 fire dmg to foe adj to target if power hits. So far it hasnt affected anyone else.
Yeah, it should. Thanks for the reminder.

[EricStratton]

Post encounter:

I hope that went well for everyone. There's a lot of stuff for me to remember so, as I've said, be liberal in your descriptions. All in all, *I* thought it went well. While it did make the fight harder, keeping the dragonshield's in the woods was probably the best move. They can shift all over the place when terrain allows.

I'm also happy things weren't as easy as I thought they might be given all the beefed up stats.

With the first fight out of the way I imagine you all might have found a power or two not as useful as you'd hoped. So go ahead and use this time to replace any powers/skills/feats you don't like. After this we'll go by the rules - you can switch out one power, skill OR feat each time you level.

Since I have to get some work done I'll give you all until tonight/tomorrow morning to update your character posts (here (http://www.legendsofwestwood.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14489)) and for me to update your PDFs, then it's on to Winterhaven.

After updating your character's post PLEASE post what you changed.

[Sagar]

I am good as I am.

[Shiz]

I am going to swap Savage Rend for Grasping Claws and Chill Wind for Storm Spike.

[Moonshadow]

I will swap Dungeoneering for Perception and Religion for Diplomacy.

I'm almost halfway through the PHB now :)

[Zyzzyx]

I will swap Dungeoneering for Perception and Religion for Diplomacy.
/em pictures a time when Cilene is in an underground monastery, wishing for those skills back. :rotflmao:

[Quervo]

not changing anything

[Shiz]

I will swap Dungeoneering for Perception and Religion for Diplomacy.

I'm almost halfway through the PHB now :)

Wizards don't get Perception as a trainable skill. We need Dungeoneering anyway.

[noptov52]

I think I'll stay with what I've got, although I did consider changing my feat to weapon expertise axe (+1 to hit) or taking powerful charge.

[Shiz]

This is a good time to mention that feat bonuses of the same kind do not stack.

For example, there is a druid feat that gives me a plus to hit and damage on a charge. I cannot stack the damage from Powerful Charge with that feat.

Same with initiative. One cannot take Quick Draw (+2 init, change weapons as a free action) and Improved Init (+4 init) to get +6 init.

If you are going to take a charge feat, make sure there isn't a better one you might be able to take later. Of course, you could swap Powerful Charge out when you take the new one.

[Quervo]

ummm error...

A Feat bonus and Power bonus will stack, they are from different sources. The rule is that bonus from the same source do not stack unless they say otherwise.

[EricStratton]

ummm error...

A Feat bonus and Power bonus will stack, they are from different sources. The rule is that bonus from the same source do not stack unless they say otherwise.
Who exactly are you replying to and what exactly was the error?

[Quervo]

referring to Shiz... (see phb 275 )

Attack rolls, damage rolls, defenses, skill checks, and ability
checks are often modified by bonuses and penalties.
Bonuses: There’s one important rule for bonuses: Don’t
add together bonuses of the same type to the same roll or
score. If you have two bonuses of the same type that apply
to the same roll or score, use the higher bonus.
An armor bonus is granted by your armor. The bonus
applies as long as you wear the armor.
An enhancement bonus augments your attack rolls and
damage rolls or your defenses. You gain an enhancement
bonus to AC when wearing magic armor, an enhancement
bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls when wielding a
magic weapon or implement, and an enhancement bonus
to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will when wearing a magic item
that occupies the neck item slot (see page 249). You can
benefit from a magic weapon, magic armor, and a magic
cloak at the same time, since their enhancement bonuses
add to different rolls or scores.
A feat bonus is granted by a feat. The bonus applies as
long as you have the feat.
An item bonus is granted by certain magic items. The
bonus applies as long as you wear the item.
A power bonus derives from a power or a class feature.
Power bonuses are usually temporary or situational.
The proficiency bonus gained from proficiency with a
weapon applies to attack rolls made using that weapon.
You gain the proficiency bonus only when using powers
that have the weapon keyword.
A racial bonus is granted by your race. An elf ’s Group
Awareness trait, for example, grants non-elf allies within 5
squares a +1 racial bonus to Perception checks.
A shield bonus is granted by your shield. Shield bonuses
apply to AC and Reflex defense. Powers, feats, or magic
items might provide a shield bonus; these typically help
only characters who aren’t using shields.
Some bonuses are untyped (“a +2 bonus”). Most of these
are situational and add together with other bonus you have,
including other untyped bonuses.
Penalties: Unlike bonuses, penalties don’t have types.
Penalties add together, unless they’re from the same power.
If two monsters attack you with the same power and each
causes you to take a penalty to a particular roll or score,
you don’t add the penalties together; you take the worst
penalty.
A penalty might be effectively canceled by a bonus and
vice versa. If you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls and take a
–2 penalty to attack rolls at the same time, you end up with
a +0 modifier.



in the quick draw and improved ini, you would get the better of the 2 ini bonus but would gain the other benefits from both feats.

[EricStratton]

I will swap Dungeoneering for Perception and Religion for Diplomacy.

I'm almost halfway through the PHB now :)

Wizards don't get Perception as a trainable skill. We need Dungeoneering anyway.
I'll leave Dungeoneering and swap Religion for Diplomacy.

[Shiz]

I just said that feat bonuses of the same kind would not stack. I see you agree.

[Moonshadow]

Thanks ES. Damnit I didn't see the limitation on perception. I think my retention is way down :)

[Quervo]

ummm.... Moonie check you trainable's with what you have and want, but you get pick another skill as you racial ability, so you may be able to do what you wanted

Eladrin Education: You gain training in one additional
skill selected from the skill list in Chapter 5.

[Shiz]

NICE!

[EricStratton]

ummm.... Moonie check your trainables with what you have and want, but you get to pick another skill as your racial ability, so you may be able to do what you wanted

Eladrin Education: You gain training in one additional
skill selected from the skill list in Chapter 5.

She can but she'd have to drop Thievery.

And I fixed your post. Oh my eyes. :lowlol:

[Greebo]

In the "Group 4 forming" thread, I had stated that I wouldn't be able to commit to playing. I obviously have changed my mind about that.

I want it to be very clear, however, that I will understand completely if the party does not wish to add another to the ranks. If you have any reservations about me joining, please don't hesitate to respond to ES (via Sagar) honestly.

[Quervo]

I have no issues, it is weather or not ES can adjust to a 6th

[Shiz]

Sagar and Moon don't seem to be as attentive (not their fault, I know) as some of us so another chatterbox is welcome. You would make a great rogue, Greebs!

[Greebo]

Sagar and Moon don't seem to be as attentive (not their fault, I know) as some of us so another chatterbox is welcome. You would make a great rogue, Greebs!
Moonshadow's got the thieving skills. ;) I tailored my skills to try and fill in some of the gaps - streetwise, bluff, intimidation, and insight, specifically.

Rogue was tempting though! ;)

[Sagar]

I would normally be more attentive but 2 days of food poisoning followed by 2 days of catching up has kept me busy :p

[Shiz]

Man, warlocks get more HPs than druids. WAZZAP with that?! Rend even has more CON.

[Greebo]

ES allowed me to use a Forgotten Realms background which allowed me to use my highest stat for my base hps instead of Con. Without that background I'd start with 25.

However, I'll only gain 5/lvl, so I will fall behind quickly.

[Shiz]

Moonshadow's got the thieving skills. ;) I tailored my skills to try and fill in some of the gaps - streetwise, bluff, intimidation, and insight, specifically.

Rogue was tempting though! ;)

Rogues get all those skills, too, but you will enjoy the warlock.

Eric, you are probably going to have to beef up the encounters, adding an extra mini-boss.

[Greebo]

I hope I'm not saying too much or speaking for ES, and I don't intend to metagame, but ... originally I offered to ES to sit "in reserve" in case someone dropped out and he suggested that the current party might find the current campaign a bit ... challenging... with its current build.

[EricStratton]

I hope I'm not saying too much or speaking for ES, and I don't intend to metagame, but ... originally I offered to ES to sit "in reserve" in case someone dropped out and he suggested that the current party might find the current campaign a bit ... challenging... with its current build.
To explain a bit further but not to give anything away, the more I read about this campaign the more I see people complain that it's written to be too hard. I'm hoping that having everyone w/ a little extra beef will help w/ that but I *do* plan on increasing the level of the encounters a bit to handle a 6th. If, at that point, I find the encounters too hard, I'll dial them back down.

[Shiz]

Did the Penny Arcade guys do some if this with 3 characters?

[Greebo]

I should say, if any group can strategically handle a "hard challenge" and put their skills to the best possible use to overcome the hurdles, it's this one. I haven't forgotten the **** we managed to pull off in EQ1 when others said it couldn't be done at our levels. :D

Hopefully adding me doesn't make the group overkill.

[EricStratton]

Did the Penny Arcade guys do some if this with 3 characters?
Yes, they did.

[Asharad]

But they also got the whole party killed at least once.

[Shiz]

I missed that part.

[Moonshadow]

I'm happy to have another caster to stand back to back with :lowrazz:

Making more progress in my reading and getting into the routine of having the website up all the time again should improve my contribution too!

[Sagar]

To explain a bit further but not to give anything away, the more I read about this campaign the more I see people complain that it's written to be too hard. I'm hoping that having everyone w/ a little extra beef will help w/ that but I *do* plan on increasing the level of the encounters a bit to handle a 6th. If, at that point, I find the encounters too hard, I'll dial them back down.

So our next characters won't die so fast :tongue:

[EricStratton]

So our next characters won't die so fast :tongue:
Everyone make sure you have relatives of your characters rolled up ready to seek revenge. :twisted:

[Quervo]

yeah a little ranged DPS is always good.

[Shiz]

Heh. I still want to try my genasi barbarian, especially after watching Jagged.

[Greebo]

yeah a little ranged DPS is always good.

Hopefully my ranged DPS will hit a bit more often that Moon's Multiple Magic Missing Missile x3 ;)

[Quervo]

if you hit more than me melee'ing we should be good...

[Moonshadow]

Hopefully my ranged DPS will hit a bit more often that Moon's Multiple Magic Missing Missile x3 ;)

OMG mean!

[Greebo]

OMG mean!

I thought you'd like that. ;)

[Sagar]

Jim, she ain't. JIM'S magic missles almost never miss.

[Zyzzyx]

Now, if her name was Cilene Darkmagic... might have had some inherent familial abilities.

[EricStratton]

Now, if her name was Cilene Darkmagic... might have had some inherent familial abilities.
And might have had some friendly die rolling by her DM. ;)

[noptov52]

When Jagged's eyes meet hers she smiles and quickly looks away.

Brown chicken, brown cowwww! Err... Bow-Chicka, wow-wow! Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Moonshadow]

And might have had some friendly die rolling by her DM. ;)

WHAT? changing my name gets me better roles?

Damn!

[Zyzzyx]

WHAT? changing my name gets me better roles?

Damn!
Too bad she doesn't know what wearing that other leather armor would've gotten her. :twisted:

[Sagar]

I am willing to exterminate Kobolds.

I also think we should tell him that there may be something behind the kobold incursion and we intend to investigate that.

[Shiz]

Someone with Diplo ask for a bonus if we find the source of the incursion ond provide proof.

[Quervo]

greebo?

[Moonshadow]

Someone with Diplo ask for a bonus if we find the source of the incursion ond provide proof.

Damnit, read the threadds in order. BRB

[Sagar]

I'm thinking, after this, we go back and get rooms and try to get the elf wench to track for us. I think the stores may be closing so we can't dump these weapons tonight. We can leave them in a room, I guess.

Should we make a Group 4 sticky to put key info in (like names, maps, etc.) so we don't have to hunt through pages and pages to find them later?

[Shiz]

Track is a Perception check. I should be good at it.

[Greebo]

Diplo isn't a strong suit for me and moon's already posed the suggestion. However, if he resists, I'll make an attempt.

[Moonshadow]

I swapped to Diplo after the kobold battle. I'm not realllly good at it, but I am no longer a 1!

[Quervo]

i just know it wasnt me.... I know 'locks are normally cha based, so it was a good shot in the dark

[Greebo]

I swapped to Diplo after the kobold battle. I'm not realllly good at it, but I am no longer a 1!

Update your char sheet?

n/m i see ES did that

[Moonshadow]

Update your char sheet?

n/m i see ES did that


Yeah he's spoiling us :)

[Greebo]

Hopefully nobody objects to me moving along the dialog...

[Shiz]

Nope. Let's get the info you want and go to bed.

[Greebo]

ES I'll be at home today - playing hookey - but i'm on trillian and will be checking in.

Do we pretty much grind to a halt on weekends?

[Shiz]

Depends. Last weekend was pretty active, but Moonie wasn't on much.

[Moonshadow]

I will be around this weekend. I've got the laptop set up now so it can roam around the house with me.

The issue with the desktop is once I sit down i'm sunk and nothing gets done. Except perhaps leveling.

[Greebo]

Ok well I'll be in and out - Ed is coming in this weekend, but I'll try to keep up.

[EricStratton]

I hsould be around this weekend. But I only get to get on my comp while Ethan is napping so my posts will probably come in bursts.

[Sagar]

We have company coming so I'll probably be erratic also.

[Quervo]

I am about the same... will ussually check 3-4 times a day

[noptov52]

I'm erotic.

Fixed.