Discussion 01 : 05 The Von Jallach Crypt

[Greebo]

One time only hint:

Don't forget to tell the DM if you're actively using perception.

[Quervo]

I am activley perceving with my passive perception score.... ;)

[Shiz]

Swarms are one of the coolest 4E ideas.

[Greebo]

Swarm? Did I say it was a swarm? I said they swarmed...

Now if someone wants to do a monster knowledge check... ;)

[attriel]

So, what can Shere do? I 'm guessing prone and grappled, but I SOOOO don't remember what they did with grapple in 4e so I'm not sure which of my skills I can use

I'm guessing swinging the weapon, hard. But can I use one of hte at-will implement powers?

[Greebo]

Prone: You are lying down. You grant CA to melee against you, gain +2 vs. ranged against you. You are -2 to attack.

Standing up is a move action.

So you can stand and still do a minor and standard action.

[Greebo]

Moving sagars post

[attriel]

seriusly??? wtf is up with my rolls!!!

[Greebo]

Sagar - does that effect kick in even on a miss? I guess it would since its a blast not an attack...

[Sagar]

The effect is a dragon sorcerers special. It doesn't specifically say but since it's a sustain minor effect, I think it does - especially since it does damage on a miss.

[Greebo]

Agreed.

You guys are so **** ass lucky. No **** those two 20's both came up as pulldown crits, not attack crits.

[Greebo]

Hmm lets do that again

[Greebo]

# Count %
1 4 4.00%
2 3 3.00%
3 2 2.00%
4 5 5.00%
5 5 5.00%
6 7 7.00%
7 7 7.00%
8 6 6.00%
9 5 5.00%
10 5 5.00%
11 4 4.00%
12 7 7.00%
13 6 6.00%
14 6 6.00%
15 6 6.00%
16 4 4.00%
17 4 4.00%
18 6 6.00%
19 4 4.00%
20 4 4.00%

Pretty well random yeah

[Zyzzyx]

And 3 actually came up the least. I guess Ash already used 'em all.

[Greebo]

<% if user.name='asharad' set die.weight(#3,+10%) %>
<% if user.name='attriel' set die.weight(#1,+40%) %>

Really, its not that hard... ;)

[Greebo]

Atty:
Bond of Retribution
KEYWORDS Divine, Radiant, Weapon USED
Standard
ACTION
Melee weapon
RANGE
6
ATTACK
One creature
TARGET
*
vs AC
DEFENSE
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier (+4) damage. The
first time an enemy other than the target hits or
misses you before the end of your next turn, the
target takes radiant damage equal to your
Intelligence modifier (+2).

Your description of your attack is incorrect. The lizard can attack anyone else it wants. If the other lizards, the gnome or the goblin shoot at you, then the lizards suffer.

[attriel]

oh irght sorry. wrong set of attacks.

it's confusing keeping urvi's "attack somneone else and suffer" and my "someone attacks me and you suffer" attakcs straight :o

[attriel]

Not sure Jacoby needs to be able to see the swarm. It's a blast radius from what he said, which means that as long as he can see what he targetted with the blast it should work.

[Greebo]

And the blast is supposed to go around the corner of the wall, how?

[Greebo]

Origin Square: A close attack’s area of effect
defines the attack’s origin square, which is the
attack’s starting point. A close burst uses your space
as its origin square. A close blast uses a square
within your space as its origin square. For a target
to be affected by a close attack, there must be line
of effect from the origin square to the target (see
“Seeing and Targeting,” page 273).

Shout is close blast 3.

Like wise if it were an area burst x within y, then you'd need LoE to hit the target square within y squares, and then from y to each target would require LoE

[Asharad]

And the blast is supposed to go around the corner of the wall, how?

Its like a grenade. I don't need to see around the corner for the shrapnel to hit around the corner.

oh, close blast. nm.

[Greebo]

*poof* nm

[Quervo]

no he is right i need Line of effect, around the wall doesnt count... moving up one square give me that LoE... as i can "fire around a corner"

[attriel]

Its like a grenade. I don't need to see around the corner for the shrapnel to hit around the corner.

oh, close blast. nm.

yeah i didn't realize it had to be centered on jacoby, in which case i withdraw my original argument :o

[Greebo]

You don't need to shift when moving towards an enemy, FYI. OAs only apply when leaving a threatened square.

[attriel]

You don't need to shift when moving towards an enemy, FYI. OAs only apply when leaving a threatened square.

Really? Can I change Urvi's move then :o i thought OAs were moving through threatened still

[Quervo]

they are but if you are moving into a theatened space from a non threated space to engage in combat there is no OA

[DinbinFanfoom]

Really? Can I change Urvi's move then :o i thought OAs were moving through threatened stillOA's are triggered when you do a ranged attack in a threatened square (generally) or when moving FROM a threatened square, regardless of the destination, unless you shift or something special. Moving INTO a threatened space does not provoke OA, otherwise nobody would "charge".

[attriel]

oh, yeah, i guess she was out of threatened. didn't even think of that. I want to go kill the sucker who keeps plunking these 20 point crossbow bolts into my side!!!

[Greebo]

Atty: Razorclaw shifting doesn't move you - it enhances your speed and AC. Just confirming you understand this?

And you have no target to hit with your flail...

[Greebo]

Moving *through* threatened space, however, will provoke an OA.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Moving *through* threatened space, however, will provoke an OA.
Well yes, because that implies "from" at some point. You don't teleport. :D But yes, you're just trying to be clear. *pat pat*

[Greebo]

To be exact

Urvi can move to E7 from F7 because F7 is not threatened. E7 is threatened, however, as is D7. So to go from E7 to D7 and D7 to C7 would provoke two OA's from the lizards.

[Greebo]

Well yes, because that implies "from" at some point. You don't teleport. :D But yes, you're just trying to be clear. *pat pat*

I'm responding to atty's change of move for Urvi that would provoke 2 attacks. So shaddup you!

[attriel]

I forgot urvi wasn't in a threatened, so if i don't need shift to move then i can move further than 1 space, and i whack the shooter

she wasn't in threatened, don't need shift to move, but can't move further without hurting, will not move

[attriel]

Atty: Razorclaw shifting doesn't move you - it enhances your speed and AC. Just confirming you understand this?

And you have no target to hit with your flail...

never said it did move me

[Greebo]

Yeah I wasn't trying to tell you she could move any further safely, just that she didn't need to shift to move to the square to which she was headed. Sorry for any confusion.

Lemme know when you've made your revised revisions.

[Greebo]

never said it did move me

Ok - the whole "Shere shifts" thing confused me - given the context of the Urvi shifting...

[attriel]

Yeah I wasn't trying to tell you she could move any further safely, just that she didn't need to shift to move to the square to which she was headed. Sorry for any confusion.

Lemme know when you've made your revised revisions.

Urvi attacks lizards after whatever she needs to do to be able to hit them and not end up in the blue

Shere stands up, razorclaw shifts, heals, and blasts something with his action point

[attriel]

Ok - the whole "Shere shifts" thing confused me - given the context of the Urvi shifting...

followed by the immedate "(minor; razorclaw shifting)" to clarify and explain

there's kindof a shortage of terminology

lets go down a level!!!

[DinbinFanfoom]

To be exact
Urvi can move to E7 from F7 because F7 is not threatened. E7 is threatened, however, as is D7. So to go from E7 to D7 and D7 to C7 would provoke two OA's from the lizards.
Actually, only one, given all of that movement in one round. A given PC/NPC can only make one AoO against another given PC/NPC in one round. (PHB 290) Urvi could go all the way to C7 from their current position and only provoke a single OA from Swarm 1, at the point he moved from E7 to D7.

[Greebo]

Actually, only one, given all of that movement in one round. A given PC/NPC can only make one AoO against another given PC/NPC in one round. (PHB 290)

Oh yes, thanks - I forgot - you can OA multiple targets, but only one time per target.

[Greebo]

Ok.

Now to make your day worse.Shere stands up (Move) and Shifts (Minor; Razorclaw Shifting: +2 speed, +1 AC and Reflex) and mentally binds his wounds (Second Wind: +7HP, +2 all defenses).

OI!!!

Action point, Shared MAdness (because obviously I'm going nuts here), and Shere attempts to drive the Goblin and the Gnome insane (+4 vs Goblin Will, 1d10+4 psychic, same damage to second target in sight (gnome))

18 to hit
10 damage both

Retribution (+6 vs AC) 1d20 4
Retribution (+6 vs AC) (Enmity) 1d20 12
Retribution Damage (+4) 1d10 6
[-]Madness (+4 vs Will) 1d20 14
Madness (+4) 1d10 6[/-]
http://www.legendsofwestwood.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14678
When changing a tactic, use your original rolls.
So its 16 vs. will, not 18.

[attriel]

Oh, just a minor update? he just happens to be INVISIBLE???

OI!

[Greebo]

He took damage, grimaced and turned invisible before your eyes, yes.

Its a minor update because it had no impact on subsequent actions, including sagar, who missed either way.

[attriel]

OK, here's a question:

How do I roll to hit an invisible foe?

I know in 3e I rolled normal, and then I rolled a 50% miss chance

is that still how it works?

[Greebo]

It's -5 to hit an invisible or otherwise totally concealed foe.

[Sagar]

It's -5 to hit an invisible or otherwise totally concealed foe.
And, iirc, you have to aim at a location instead of a mob. IF he is in that location, you have a chance to hit. You can use perception to figure out the location, though. Again, iirc.

[Greebo]

Not per PHB2 revision. In PHB2, if target is invis but not hidden, you know where he is. To hide while invis, required conditions for stealth must be met (something to hide behind or darkness)

[Quervo]

Yeah Sagar, Bad news, Jacoby has already used both shots of his healing for this encounter. Once when Urvi got knocked down to sub 10 hps in the first round or 2 and last round when I picked Shere back up. I dont have any other powers that allow for surge usage or healing unless "you" can hit the target.

[Sagar]

That bites. I have no healing abilities at all.

Anyone else have a healing skill to stabilize Urvi?

[Greebo]

You have the heal skill. Everyone does.

[Asharad]

perhaps we should have added a healer in here somewhere...

[Greebo]

The bard is a healer.

Pretty much all of the leader archetypes have 2 minor actions per encounter that allow you to spend a surge with a bonus. Then they have other powers that either depend on them, or on you, making attacks, or other kinds of checks.

[Greebo]

[-]There was a discussion in chat about this and I wanted to explain my reasoning for requiring skill checks to stabilize Urvi even though combat is over.

It was pointed out that we are out of combat, so this should be a take 10 situation. However, take 10 is for low pressure situations involving mundane tasks. I simply cannot convince myself that "OMG MY COMPANION IS BLEEDING OUT" constitutes a low-stress situation or that keeping someone's liver from falling out is a mundane chore.

If you can find a reference that dictates a better way to handle "the character is bleeding to death but combat is over" than this, I'm all ears...

Those of you with crappy heals, btw, can assist instead of roll primary.[/-]
Scratch that - atty found the rather obscurely hidden reference I couldn't find. Yay atty!

[attriel]

[-]OK, so we can't heal Urvi, check.

We used the default "not dying anymore" feature. but does that make her concious? 0?

that was ill-defined. if she's unconcious, she cna't surge and Shere will suggest a longer rest so she can become concious and use up some surges.

Otherwise, Urvi may suggest the longer rest, because she's going through surges like nobody's business![/-]

nevermind, if i read more cosely i see urvi's at 1 and concious :o and she has a crapload of surges to use, DAMN!

[Greebo]

Unconscious
When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you
can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it.
Until it regains hit points, the creature is unconscious but
not dying. Any healing makes the creature conscious.
If the creature doesn’t receive any healing, it is
restored to 1 hit point and becomes conscious after a
short rest.
After the short rest, she can surge all she wants.

My whole concern was...can she make it to the short rest.

[Zyzzyx]

Gotta say, those drake swarms were ugly lil' things. Interesting 'pull-down' ability too.

[Greebo]

Yeah, and it wasn't a power that needed recharge. At-will, +7 to hit fort. SUX

[Zyzzyx]

Yeah, and it wasn't a power that needed recharge. At-will, +7 to hit fort. SUX

Minor action as well? Eeeesh...