Actual Character List

[attriel]

The other thread is getting bogged down with the discussion on creation, so I wanted to list out what we have so far:

Zyzzyx -- Gnome Ranger
Kiir -- Eladrin Shaman
Murgos -- Halfling Rogue (I think)
Drathos -- Meat Shield ?
Dinbin -- Half-Elf Wizard

[Kiir]

Here is my Shaman, I changed her at will since this one is a nice compliment to our rogue.

[drathos]

Here's my fighter. If anyone has any comments/critiques before we start, I'm all ears.

[Shiz]

The only comment I would make is that since you have an extra feat from being human and you have a high-crit weapon, you might want to consider Dual Strike as an at-will. You will get 2x as many chances to crit. If you decide to do this, I would replace Cleave.

Also, the Battlerager Vigor build is considered broken (too powerful) by many on the official forums at early levels so atty might want to houserule a small nerf to your ability to gain temp hps, say limiting temp hps to once per round. I just don't want him to be shocked when you stack 20 temp hps in one round.

Just my nosy, min-maxing opinion.

[attriel]

The only comment I would make is that since you have an extra feat from being human and you have a high-crit weapon, you might want to consider Dual Strike as an at-will. You will get 2x as many chances to crit. If you decide to do this, I would replace Cleave.

Also, the Battlerager Vigor build is considered broken (too powerful) by many on the official forums at early levels so atty might want to houserule a small nerf to your ability to gain temp hps, say limiting temp hps to once per round. I just don't want him to be shocked when you stack 20 temp hps in one round.

Just my nosy, min-maxing opinion.

Well ... I'm going to let it play as long as it's not errata'd, but I'm not seeing how he gets more than 6 THP on his own, b/c THP don't stack by default, so no matter how many hits he takes, he gets refilled to 5THP after. He'd only get one from his Invigorating power, so that'd get him up to 6, he takes a hit, so I think it'd be DM's call which THP he lost first.

Yeah, if he takes <6 damage, it's the same as not hitting him at all. That'd be a nuisance if things were going to hit that lightly ;)

[Kiir]

I changed my magic weapon and 1 feat after thinking things over. Here are the changes.

[Zyzzyx]

Here's the little guy. I may still tweak the equipment a bit, but I'm pleased with the powers and other stats.

A'right folks.... whaddya think. ;)

I basically plan to hide out in the back of the crowd and play sniper. Watch the back of your knees. :twisted:

[drathos]

The only comment I would make is that since you have an extra feat from being human and you have a high-crit weapon, you might want to consider Dual Strike as an at-will. You will get 2x as many chances to crit. If you decide to do this, I would replace Cleave.

Dual Strike is for dual wielding only. I was unsure about Cleave, but I had been looking at either Reaping Strike (still do some damage on miss) or Sure Strike (higher attack roll) as alternatives. I was also thinking of Bedeviling Assault as an alternative to Crack the Shell.

[Zyzzyx]

OK, was looking ahead for the little guy, and just wasn't getting it. That, and my inner min-maxer wanted out, so... here we go: one classic elf ranger with a really big-ass bow. Couldn't pass this up. That, and took a different look at the power choices.

[attriel]

So, you're gonna need a few more days to decide on a char, eh?

i think we basically have everyone (murgos mailed his to me for feedback since he hasn't done 4e yet), so we can probably start getting things together for starting?

So, We'll start monday? I know din said he needed the weekend to have full access for looking up the bits for his character, and it gives everyone time to look over and make any last refinements.


I'll give you the basic rundown of how it'll start off: On your way to the actual adventure, there will be 2-4 encounters, ranging 4-6, to let everyone have some time with their PCs. They will all be during one "day" unless you need to rest for surges, so you'll have to decide when you think it's best for your dailies still. Between encounters you can change out an at-will or an encounter, or any unused daily. At that rest before the adventure you can do a complete respec (or change characters entirely if you want). You can change your magic items. Once the adventure starts, since you'll have had some time with your characters, I'll allow you to change any one power, feat, or trained skill during a long rest. Once out of the adventure, you're a static character under the standard modification rules.

the idea here is to give you all those chances to tweak and experiment you would normally have had during the first 5 levels, including the rebuild we've been allowing on the forums. You don't have to change anything, but I want to give you the option.

[Greebo]

OK, was looking ahead for the little guy, and just wasn't getting it. That, and my inner min-maxer wanted out, so... here we go: one classic elf ranger with a really big-ass bow. Couldn't pass this up. That, and took a different look at the power choices.

Psst. The DM says, "MAKE A @#()*&$ DECISION, NOW!" ;)

[DirkDarkBlade]

Sorry for the delay but attached is Dirk's char sheet.

If anyone has suggestions I am open to them of course.

[Zyzzyx]

Check that you have the Lightning blade equipped in your main hand. Looks like you've got the shortsword there, so its giving its attack stats on the cards instead.

[DirkDarkBlade]

I checked and the lightning blade is in the main hand. I tried swapping it and the char sheet didn't appear to change. Odd. I'll look at it again tonight when I hvae a bit more time. Thanks!

[Greebo]

Right click the character sheet on the powers and you can force it to render

[Shiz]

Dual Strike is for dual wielding only. I was unsure about Cleave, but I had been looking at either Reaping Strike (still do some damage on miss) or Sure Strike (higher attack roll) as alternatives. I was also thinking of Bedeviling Assault as an alternative to Crack the Shell.

reaping > sure strike.

[Greebo]

Reaping can be helpful, at least against non minions, but if there's a lot of minions, you want that higher % chance to hit, cause on a miss, reaping does jack to a minion.

[Zyzzyx]

Uh, look again G. Reaping strike has a guaranteed damage.

Miss: Half Strength modifier damage. If you’re wielding
a two-handed weapon, you deal damage equal to your
Strength modifier.
That's exactly what you want if you think you're going up against minions. IIRC, minions die if they take any damage, right?

[Greebo]

Uh, look again G. Reaping strike has a guaranteed damage.


That's exactly what you want if you think you're going up against minions. IIRC, minions die if they take any damage, right?

I know what it says. Doesn't matter. Minions never take damage on a miss.
HP 1: a missed attack never damages a minion.
and
If a minion is missed by an attack that normally deals damage on a miss, however, it takes no damage.

[Zyzzyx]

Ah, gotchya. I'll admit to not knowing that detail of minion life. Interesting.

So, that's why some folks really like the Cloud of Daggers for a wizzie at-will power.

Any creature that enters the area or starts its turn there
takes force damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (mini-
mum 1).

That'd be a guaranteed minion killer. Unless, I guess, if the minion was slid out of that area before its turn. Unlikely.

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK see if this looks better. Greebo showed me how to adjust the char sheet (I was looking in the wrong section). I'm guessing this is because I bought the sword first and the majic dagger second. But they are in the correct hands.

[Shiz]

Just one man's opinion but...

There are no rogue attacks that let you use two weapons so the only benefit you are getting from having two weapons are from the feats you chose and there are better feats for rogues (Weapon Focus, Weapon Expertise, Nimble Blade). Keep the dagger as your ranged weapon, but dump the two weapon feats.

If you have a high strength and are a rogue, I would recommend the Ruthless Ruffian instead of the Artful Dodger but since both are high it really doesn't matter, I guess. That said, unless you go Ruthless, that 18 STR is going to waste. Putting it in WIS would boost your Perception a ton. High STR also make Riposte Strike a really nice at-will.

[Zyzzyx]

I'm pleased with the build for the elf ranger, gonna stick with it. Only change I see right now (aside from filling out the mundane equipment) is to swap the STR/CON scores. Go from 15str/12con to 12str/15con. I'm not really using anything that uses the STR mod, and a few more HP isn't a bad thing.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Just one man's opinion but...

There are no rogue attacks that let you use two weapons so the only benefit you are getting from having two weapons are from the feats you chose and there are better feats for rogues (Weapon Focus, Weapon Expertise, Nimble Blade). Keep the dagger as your ranged weapon, but dump the two weapon feats.

If you have a high strength and are a rogue, I would recommend the Ruthless Ruffian instead of the Artful Dodger but since both are high it really doesn't matter, I guess. That said, unless you go Ruthless, that 18 STR is going to waste. Putting it in WIS would boost your Perception a ton. High STR also make Riposte Strike a really nice at-will.
I'll try to do a rebuild and see which looks better. I used to play Dirk as a two weapon fighter, and he was more dex than str. But I'll just make a seperate char and see which looks better.

Thanks for the opinion!

[drathos]

Reaping can be helpful, at least against non minions, but if there's a lot of minions, you want that higher % chance to hit, cause on a miss, reaping does jack to a minion.

That's the kind of situation that had me pick Cleave over the others. If I hit one then I do (currently) 4 damage to another without having to make another roll (if I read that right). Not a lot, but it'll take out a minion.

[drathos]

I checked and the lightning blade is in the main hand. I tried swapping it and the char sheet didn't appear to change. Odd. I'll look at it again tonight when I hvae a bit more time. Thanks!

The Character Viewer is actually a separate app that's launched by the Character Builder. It loads the info from the .dnd4e file, not what's in memory. If you want the Character Viewer to be up-to-date, you have to save the info in the Character Builder first. I got frustrated a few times until I figured that out.

[attriel]

The Character Viewer is actually a separate app that's launched by the Character Builder. It loads the info from the .dnd4e file, not what's in memory. If you want the Character Viewer to be up-to-date, you have to save the info in the Character Builder first. I got frustrated a few times until I figured that out.

oh, well, that explains so much!

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK per Shiz's suggestion I tried a rebuild of Dirk where he is more of a thug rogue (which is more fiting with Dirk's stats).

If you have suggestions I'm still open. Also if y'all think I should stick with Dirk how he was originally built I kept both versions and will use the one that y'all think would be better in the group.

[attriel]

OK per Shiz's suggestion I tried a rebuild of Dirk where he is more of a thug rogue (which is more fiting with Dirk's stats).

If you have suggestions I'm still open. Also if y'all think I should stick with Dirk how he was originally built I kept both versions and will use the one that y'all think would be better in the group.

Honestly, you have the +1 to attack both ways, and you get +1 defense with the dual weapon build. I'd probably take the weapon change (lightning sword over lightning dagger), and just keep the second weapon for the bonuses. Basically trading +1 offense on dirk2 for +1 defense on dirk the first.

Might skew a bit more at higher levels when dirk2's feats go to +2 and +3, but in the next 10 levels you'll have plenty of natural opportunities for modifiying those feats if you want :o

But, at hte root, my basic policy still applies -- Play what you want. You built dirk first because it was what you wanted to play. So play him. I don't think the differences are all that significant here, but even if they were. so what? whats the point of playing a game if you can't have fun doing it! :)

[Shiz]

I agree but since he has never built a 4E character before I just wanted to point out that what he might have thought he was building was not really there. He was also getting no benefit from an 18 STR.

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK I've looked them over and I'm happy with Dirk 2. I did make a couple of changes from last time so I'm attaching the char sheet. I'm still open to (and thankful for) any suggestions.

The only things I think I did was:

I used Dirk2.
I renamed him Dirk Darkblade Jr.
I exchanged intimidate with bluff as it appeared to be more flexible. (Also it appears that for some future feats I'll need bluff). I didn't understand why it wouldn't let me choose stealth (but it must have something to do with the build).

One thing I liked (and plan) is the camo cloths that I can wear to "blend in" but the summoned armor means I can call on my armor if a battle ensues. Seems like a nice combination.

I really liked the quick fingers feat (to be very fast at pick pocketing) but the other feats seemed more useful in a group. Besides Jr has little enough regard for personal property concepts as it is.

Here is the details screen:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Dirk DarkBlade Jr, level 5
Halfling, Rogue
Build: Brawny Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Brutal Scoundrel
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 19, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 19.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 17.

AC: 20 Fort: 17 Reflex: 19 Will: 17
HP: 46 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 11
TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +13, Thievery +13, Athletics +11, Acrobatics +13, Perception +8, Bluff +11
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +4, Heal +3, History +2, Insight +3, Intimidate +6, Nature +3, Religion +2, Streetwise +6
FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Light Blade)
Level 2: Nimble Blade
Level 4: Backstabber
POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
Rogue daily 1: Easy Target
Rogue daily 5: Deep Cut
Rogue encounter 1: Torturous Strike
Rogue encounter 3: Topple Over
Rogue utility 2: Tumble
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Camouflaged Clothing, Disguise Kit, Everburning Torch, Thieves' Tools, Summoned Leather Armor +2, Lightning Short sword +1, Cloak of Distortion +1, Dagger
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

[Zyzzyx]

One thought would be to use one of your Level 4 stat increases for DEX. Moving to an even number final score bumps the modifier up to the next level (get it to 20, get a +5 instead of +4).

Maybe even the same for CHA, though your powers vary in using both CHA and STR mods in the damage calcs, so you'd be losing one point from the STR mod to gain one in CHA. They're even now at +4, so that's probably fine. *shrug*


And I liked what I read on the summoned armor, very cool. And then your thought to combine with the camo clothing, brilliant. Nice choice on the cloak too. *Marcus looks over his shoulder at the same cloak*

[DirkDarkBlade]

I did str and con to make them even. so I'd have to loose con to raise dex and the con score was low enough to bother me. At least that was my logic.

[Zyzzyx]

Drathos,

Looking at Bel's defense scores leads me over to the ability scores. Thinking that, since you've been given the option, take a set from the 'spare' set that attriel provided instead.

I'm figuring you went with your third set of numbers: 11 11 15 13 11 15.

If you went with the second set from the spare (15 9 15 14 10 14) you could put the 14s on Dex/Int and Wis/Cha, getting you a +2 mod for those scores, moving your REF and WIL defenses up to 15. You would have to drop the stats on a couple with the 9 and 10 though (Int & Cha, perhaps?).

[drathos]

Drathos,

Looking at Bel's defense scores leads me over to the ability scores. Thinking that, since you've been given the option, take a set from the 'spare' set that attriel provided instead.

I'm figuring you went with your third set of numbers: 11 11 15 13 11 15.

If you went with the second set from the spare (15 9 15 14 10 14) you could put the 14s on Dex/Int and Wis/Cha, getting you a +2 mod for those scores, moving your REF and WIL defenses up to 15. You would have to drop the stats on a couple with the 9 and 10 though (Int & Cha, perhaps?).

Good idea. Gain in those areas without sacrificing much of anything. It "houserules" the character in the Character builder, but that doesn't really matter for this.