Discussion & OOC Thread

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK that is why I was asking. It seemed a lot of work on the DM's part to recalc, but as Greebo said how would I know ahead of time I was hit.

I'll plan to do the "If I'm hit..." thing to make it simpler, but if I'm hit and killed I might call for the redo after the fact.

Thanks,

[Zyzzyx]

I've had experience with the immediate interrupt actions with Solak and now with Marcus as well. I haven't done the "if I'm hit, do this automatically" request, because there's been times where I don't want to spend that encounter power yet. If the hit is only for a little bit, shrug it off and keep going. Now, I guess its a bit of metagaming, and maybe a bit of a result of this format compared to PnP, but it also depends on whether there's a condition with the hit as well (slow, disease, ongoing damage) as to whether I want to block it.

But I do sometimes feel that I'm annoying the DMs a bit with some of the interrupts. Especially that last fight with Marcus. ;)

[attriel]

Wasn't complaining, Fia

Honeslty, not sure I have time to post until this evening anyway. I was just clarifying in case anyone was confused on who's turn it was

[attriel]

God, no wonder greebo always wants to kill us. decision making is hard and tedious :o

[DirkDarkBlade]

Hey I know we aren't as active on the weekends normally, however I'm going to be in a class all weekend this weekend and next. I'll be checking the board in the mornings but if I miss some action y'all can decide what Dirk does so I don't hold up the game.

Just remember Dirk is a paranoid rogue's rogue (so its not a stretch for me to act the part) hehe.

[attriel]

Well, before you go, you doing anything about that anvil? :)

[DirkDarkBlade]

I thought the anvil's were all taken away and it was just a depressed ground...let me go read it again.

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK until the map gets drawn I'll reserve deciding what Dirk will do for certain.

But my idea is to Backstab attack one of the skellies and push (slide - whatever you call it) to shove the skele into the pit. And each of us pick a different skelle to attack - shove.

I don't have my book with me today so I don't remember the shoving rules or the rgiht name for it.

[attriel]

BULL RUSH: STANDARD ACTION

Target: You can bull rush a target adjacent to you that is smaller than you, the same size category as
you, or one category larger than you.

Strength Attack: Make a Strength attack vs. Fortitude defense. Do not add any modifiers for the weapon you use.
Hit: Push the target 1 square, and shift into the vacated space.


Also,

Catching Yourself: If you?re forced over a precipice or a pit, you can try to catch yourself before you fall.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Let Fia try a Thunderwave (hitting/pushing up to 4 of em, in current configuration) and then bull rush whatever is left.

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK I don't think looking at the map that my original idea will work exactly. Since we are not adjacent to the mobs at first we can't bull rush until we move up. So I thought I'd post what my planned attack is and see if it makes sense before I post it in the "real" adventure thread.

Dirk plans to Tumble (utility Power) forward 3 squares (Move action) placing him adjacent to Skeleton 5. Then use Riposte strike against Skele 5. Since it is the first round I have CA and would also do Sneak Attack damage. (assuming this is not enough to kill skele 5) the next round Dirk would plan to Bull rush Skele 5 pushing him into the pit.

Does this make sense or am I missing something?

[attriel]

Technically, you can move up to them, and then bull rush.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Technically, you can move up to them, and then bull rush.
Cool. The way I read it I didn't think I could do that. Dirk would rather do that. Can he use his sneak attack against another skele since they aren't expecting him, or is that asking too much? And what do I roll for bull rush? Just 1D20 plus str bonus?

[drathos]

Unfortunately, in a surprise round you are limited to a single non-free action and can't spend action points to do more. For us melee types, that means we get to move or do nothing. :lowmad:

[attriel]

Unfortunately, in a surprise round you are limited to a single non-free action and can't spend action points to do more. For us melee types, that means we get to move or do nothing. :lowmad:

Totally forgot the single-action restiction on surprise rounds, oops.

In that case, I stand corrected, Murgos. You can't bull rush, AND you can't do what you were planning :/

[attriel]

Cool. The way I read it I didn't think I could do that. Dirk would rather do that. Can he use his sneak attack against another skele since they aren't expecting him, or is that asking too much? And what do I roll for bull rush? Just 1D20 plus str bonus?

turns out you're right. yo ucan't do it, but for a different reason :/

Also, using sneak attack requires attacking. Bull rush is an attack action. And, no, I don't think you can sneak attack the bull rush target, because you're not stabbing, just block tackling

And if you WERE rushing, yes, 1d20+STR+1/2 LVL

[Shiz]

Sneak Attack
Once per round, when you have combat advantage
against an enemy and are using a weapon from the
light blade, the crossbow, or the sling weapon group,
an attack you make against that enemy deals extra
damage if the attack hits. You decide whether to apply
the extra damage after making the damage roll.

The only thing in there that says you cannot apply sneak attack damamge on a bull rush is the weapon restrictions of sneak attack. Bull rush is not a weapon attack.

[DirkDarkBlade]

So would it be better during the surpise round to throw a daggar at Skele 1 and get my sneak attack damage? And just stay where I am.

Then next round tumble to Skele 1, and bull rush him into the pit?

Of course if I bull rush with a dagger in my hand could I sneak the critter?

[attriel]

You cannot apply sneak damage unless you are doing some other form of damage (or a power says something different)

GM Ruling

[DirkDarkBlade]

You cannot apply sneak damage unless you are doing some other form of damage (or a power says something different)

GM Ruling
Sorry the daggar in my hand comment should have been tagged with the sarcasm tag. I forgot.


But what about using a throwing dagger to get some damage during the surprise round (and sneak damage) vs. doing the movement.

[attriel]

Sorry the daggar in my hand comment should have been tagged with the sarcasm tag. I forgot.


But what about using a throwing dagger to get some damage during the surprise round (and sneak damage) vs. doing the movement.

Yeah, you can throw a dagger, and I don't recall anything offhand that precludes sneak damage during a surprise round (that would be kind of rude actually)

It's a little more vague on sneak while throwing a dagger, but I'll allow it, since it IS a light blade :o

[Shiz]

Rogues get combat advantage and, thus, sneak attack damage on any attack against an enemy in an encounter that has not yet acted. It is called First Strike and is a class feature.

[attriel]

Rogues get combat advantage and, thus, sneak attack damage on any attack against an enemy in an encounter that has not yet acted. It is called First Strike and is a class feature.

Strangely, nothing in that text modifies the "crossbow, light blade, or sling" restriction on Sneak Attacks, and thus is totally irrelevant. It's a surprise round, obviously he has sneak, but the restriction does not allow for a thrown weapon.

I'm allowing it however, GM Decision

[DirkDarkBlade]

I need to remember Dirk is not a paladin, and doesn't automatically despise all skele's and undead in general...

[DinbinFanfoom]

When the leader's eye's flare, Fia recalls some ancient text or other that had suggested that a cleric of the Raven Queen, with the willing assistance of one who was centered on their desire to serve a greater good, could leave him alive, but not alive. But, she thinks that the priest would die in the attempt ... Could these five be the last of the guards, transformed to protect their home from the Orcs? But, five guards would mean five priests had also survived and given their lives to affect the transformation ... And how long would they have to have been down here, now?
I'm a bit confused. Does mean the skellies are "good" or "bad"? Or just... guarding here mindlessly? That last one didn't attack Dirk when it could have, so... skellies that want to talk?

Dirk: Can you hold back at least until Skele 5 and see what it does? If it attacks, then we fight. If it doesn't, then we might wanna get info, although this is... strange. I've never met an undead that wasn't overtly hostile. Since these aren't reeking of necrotic energies, they may be some sort of guardians... and maybe even sentient.

[attriel]

Raven Queen is the god of the dead. She makes sure dead people are dead. Some of her champions are undead, who through their lives fought for her and gave their deaths to her so they could continue fighting. That way doesn't involve dead priests.

So Fia is remembering part of that bit, and part of some other texts, and realizing that these might not be Evil. They might not be good. But they do have intelligence. If you read what Althaea got from her checks, some more background on who they are comes to light.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Yeah, OK, I kinda pieced that together, was just making sure. Fia will try to convince our side to not attack until after she tries to "talk" to the skellies. Which is pretty wierd, but hey, there it is...

[DirkDarkBlade]

Dirk's skills don't lend themselves to diplomacy (+6) much. If you think it worth it he can try bluffing (+11) otherwise I'll plan to leave him wearily watching the skele's and prepared for battle, but not attacking. The non aggressive skele's do have him a bit confused though.

If you'd like Dirk to attempt to Bluff let me know.

[Kiir]

Bluffing at +11 isn't a bad idea, though we'll have to see how atty wants the skill challenge to run first.

He just left the office and won't be home till late this evening because he has a chiro appointment.

[DirkDarkBlade]

um, didn't he say something about a devil moving into the SW tower? And it being a bigger problem than the skele's could handle? This trouble's Dirks profit/loss tables I thought this sounds more like something the leader should address.

Oh and Dirk feels all dirty after tellling so many truths.

[DinbinFanfoom]

OK, so this isn't very cut-and-dried.

- We're sent to recon this castle, and maybe recover loot.
- We skirt the orcs outside and enter the castle through the (open) front gate, finding lots of non-living types (gargoyles, constructs) guarding the place. We whack some (Oops? They DID attack first...) on our way in.
- We encounter a party of undead guards who aren't overtly hostile, just doing their jobs.

So how does that affect our mission? Is our recon done? We either go back to Duke and say "Hey, the castle you sent us to? Funny thing... it's occupied, by... you won't believe this... undead guards from the original owners! Now what?"

OR

We whack the guardians, and repel an orc army that will undoubtably swoop in.

OR

Figure out more what is going on here and what we still can do.


I'm wagering 3 is the best option at this point.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Dirk thinks it has something to do with the "devil" in the SW tower that spooked our skele friends.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Geez, I can't remember that at all. Remind me with a cut-n-paste.

[Kiir]

"We will heal from the damage. But if you hunt the orcs, why are inside the castle? Few orcs enter the castle since the devil moved into the Southwest tower. Orcs we can kill. Orcs we like to kill."

post 248 in the main thread.

[DinbinFanfoom]

post 248 in the main thread.
Geez. I totally blew past that. Atty, are you editing after the fact? :D

[attriel]

Geez. I totally blew past that. Atty, are you editing after the fact? :D

Nope. I try never to edit the posts. I figure i'm not running out drive space, I can afford the extra post for more info :)

[DirkDarkBlade]

Just FYI. I am leaving tomorrow for a SCUBA diving trip. I won't have much if any internet access while I'm gone so I doubt I get to the boards. If Dirk's actions are holding up the game someone else is free to direct him while I am gone. When I can I will try to pop in so the game can continue on.

Just wanted y'all to know.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Climbing the rock wall....

Dirk's inclination is to climb over the pile of rocks, but that is because his Acrobatics is +13 and Athletics is +11. He doesn't relish the thought of being on the other side of the rocks alone though. If the party wants him to try (and to scout out the other side) he will. Oh and his stealth is +13 too so he'd try to be as inconspicuous as possible once on the other side.

If we want to shift the rocks Dirk's strength is 18 so he'll help with the move work.

I'll defer to the parties consensus.

Now a centipede wearing tennis shoes....

[DirkDarkBlade]

Camping for the night is cool, but we might want to push on a bit further before we decide to stop for the night.

If we do decide to stop for the night we need to decide on a watch order. Dirk doesn't mind taking the first shift. (Do we roll perception checks for our watch shifts?).

[DinbinFanfoom]

Fia will take last watch, if she has to. :P Maybe we should press on a bit... get out of this tunnel at least.

[attriel]

If you decide to rest up, let me know where you're doing it. I'm guessing the centipede nest ain't it ;)

And yes, if you do watches I'll need to know order and perception rolls for each person.

[Kiir]

If I remember correctly Althaea only needs 4 hours of meditation and she is actually awake and aware, just in a trance during them, so she can be backup on basically all the watches. She will take the middle of the night watch as well so she can have 4 hours of trance before it and get it out of the way.

[attriel]

OK folks, I'll post when I get a chance, maybe this evening. The consensus I'm seeing is to make camp once you get out of the tunnel going forward.

If that's not what you want, you should argue with the party for an alternative :o

[DirkDarkBlade]

That works for Dirk. He'll be glad to scout ahead to the tunnel opening (looking for both secret doors/traps, and a good looking camping spot). I post my roll/aciton in the game thread.

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK so do you want Dirk to regroup with y'all. Is there something he should explore further before returning? A surprise frontal attack on the Dragon, or a surprise chat with the critter might throw it off.

It must be a fairly young dragon to have such a small hord...

[DinbinFanfoom]

Can we SEE Dirk from where we are? Can he make a visual signal to us?

[attriel]

No, it's too far to make out enough detail to communicate.

Basically, you are at A, he is at B. If someone moves to the midway point, C, then they can communicate with either of you.

Really, right now there are two wholly independent acts going on. (1) Dirk has to decide whether to explore further or return to the group, (2) the group has to decide if they let Dirk have some more time or if they advance some more.

I'm presuming any discussion right now is something that happened prior to him going down, in terms of "I'll look around for a couple minutes, then return." kind of thing. Or "If you're not back in 1 minute, we're charging after you!"

[DinbinFanfoom]

Well, we're here for to defeat this evil dragon so...

it only makes sense that we all move down to where Dirk is.

Otherwise he has to come back to us (2xstealth) and then we ALL have to go back down there anyway. (2x stealth for Dirk to come back, 2x stealth for all of us to go down). We might as well move down (carefully) to meet him?

[DirkDarkBlade]

That makes sense. Also I could use the time to try and inspect the dragon looking for weak spots it its armor...perhaps a scale near its right armpit?

[attriel]

Well, i'll need 2 stealth's from each member other than dirk as you advance to where he is.

Dirk, I'll probably need perception rolls to go with whatever you decide to do.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Fia stealth +3 = 15
Fia stealth +3 = 12

[DirkDarkBlade]

OK Dirk gets a surprise round, but I don't remember what can be done and what can't during a surprise round.

My thought was to make my sword damage lightening damage (free action) and attack with Riposte Attack (where if the dragon hits me I automatically riposte) with the sneak attack bonus.

Or is this a diplomatic we should talk to the dragon type event?

I just wanted to see if I could do this during a surprise round.

If I'm only allowed a minor action could I just position myself behind the dragon?

[attriel]

OK Dirk gets a surprise round, but I don't remember what can be done and what can't during a surprise round.

My thought was to make my sword damage lightening damage (free action) and attack with Riposte Attack (where if the dragon hits me I automatically riposte) with the sneak attack bonus.

Or is this a diplomatic we should talk to the dragon type event?

I just wanted to see if I could do this during a surprise round.

If I'm only allowed a minor action could I just position myself behind the dragon?

Sorry, I should have been explicit.

Surprise round means that those acitng in the surprise round (you) can do a standard and any free actions. Anyone not acting (the party, the dragon, the hydra) can do JACK ALL. No turn. No free actions. No immediate interrupts or reactions. No Opportunity Attacks. NOTHING.

But you? It's like you've moved and minor'd. Sucks to be people who aren't you :)

Lightning & Sneak will work.

Diplomacy is up to the party. Technically they can't yell out "wait, don't attack it!" or anything, but I'll allow you to discuss amongst yourselves if you choose. But remember, it's a dragon, it attacked the skeletons, and you're sneaking up to it's hoard ...

[DirkDarkBlade]

Thanks, thats what I thought but I wasn't sure of the rules.

Dirk wants to yell out to the group "Guys, I think the Dragon's awake now!" hehe.

I'm also missing my Kender about now since he's immune to fear of any kind, including dragon.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Kiir: If Dirk shifts (tumbles) to be behind the dragon will that mess up your spirit companion's CA?

[Kiir]

It actually just messes up your CA. I put him there so you would have CA. Since it doesn't matter where you are standing to have CA and it can attack those behind it just as easy as those in front of it.

[DinbinFanfoom]

The ice that forms on it's wings seems likely to prevent it's motion, but there is little other effect (1 damage taken, 15 resist cold)OK so Fia won't be dealing much damage in this fight (most of her spells are cold-based) but most of them also have side effects that will be useful (immobilizing, dazing, slowing, etc.) I'll try to keep her from moving around too much, if nothing else.

[attriel]

Marcus' fate aside (and I swear I didn't manipulate the numbers to do that), you guys are tearing through this thing like nobody's business. I had thought of putting in another combatant or two, but decided that if it broke free and flew up through the false ceiling, there'd be archers up there to contend with. But Fia's kept the damned thing pinned!

My poor dragon ;o

[drathos]

It helps that Marcus went ape**** on the dragon before he got torn asunder. Massive damage from him and pissing off the dragon enough to trigger extra attacks on it.

[DirkDarkBlade]

Dirk had a really good first round strike on the critter. And really liked knocking a dragon over....but my rolls this past round...sigh. At least the nat 1 was the save and not the attack.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Question... can Bigby's Icy Grasp (described as a "floating hand made of ice") "fly"? It has range 20, which is pretty far... but I don't know if it can float up and grab the dragon... looking for info on this...

One post in the forums:
Hi all,

Bigby's Icy grasp is a conjuration spell. Pg 59 clarifies that conjurations create objects or creatures of magical energy. So in this case its an object with no statistics.

Also its a ranged 20 power. Pg 56 sais ''ranged [number]: A ranged power that has a range expressed as a number can be used on a target within the indicated number of square". There is no limitation where the hand will be created up or down.

Note also that the target here is the unoccupied sq not the creature attacked, so if a creature stands 21squares away from me I can still create the hand and attack it.

Moreover the hand is the specific effect of a power, it cannot move the grabbed target as a PC would, it can do only what the power allows. ( Lol that also means that the hand will not float and cannot be used as a raft, man I liked this idea http://fast1.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/smileys/wink.gif ).

As for the movement part again pg 59 states: " If a power allows you to move a conjuration at least 1 square that the conjuration occupies must remain within the power's range". Again there is limitation up or down the only thing that matters is the range of the spell.

Dont forget that the hand is not a creature, its an object. It doesnt need a move, swim or fly speed. You ( the caster ) may will it to move where you want within the limitation of the range. If a conjuration allows you to create a creature then yes that creature cannot fly unless it has a fly speed.

Enviromental phenomena does not affect conjurations (again pg 59). So gravity has no hold on the hand, it doesnt fall. If you want a reasonable explanation behind the rules think of it as hand made of energy which radiates cold, much like light which radiates heat. It has no substance, you can pass though it, there is no gravity pulling it down but you can definately get a sunburn if you dont watch out http://fast1.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/smileys/weep.gif

Sorry for the long post, I hope I got it right and helped

[attriel]

Yeah, that sounds like about what I would give.

So yeah, it can move vertically; we'll call each 5' square a 5' cube, and say that it can move in any dimension (excepting through objects, etc) as it would on the ground.

I will of course change my mind when you grab Althux and keep me from swooping :o

[DirkDarkBlade]

So any ideas on what we can do about Marcus? If none of us can rez can one of us at least carry his corpse in a bag of holding until we can get to town and have him rezed?

Does Dirk need to point out that the stuff is really good but not remarkable or anything (as far as the guy in town goes at least 8) )?

[attriel]

So any ideas on what we can do about Marcus? If none of us can rez can one of us at least carry his corpse in a bag of holding until we can get to town and have him rezed?

So I know i looked htis up last night after the battle, but I guess i neglected to post it :o

Raise Dead is a level 8 ritual, 700g to buy the ritual scroll, 500g in materials to cast it. I'd need to read on rituals more, but I'm not positive you even have the skillset in the party to cast a level 8 ritual.

Further, since the player went away, there's no pressing "reason" to bring him back, since he'd just "go feral" and wander out into the woods to be alone and think. And ES is working up a character to replace him, so you won't be out the PC very long.


Does Dirk need to point out that the stuff is really good but not remarkable or anything (as far as the guy in town goes at least 8) )?

Are you referring to Marcus' gear or the hoard? I didn't bother putting in miscellaneous adventuring gear and common weapons. I figured it would just be tedious to sell off later:o

[DirkDarkBlade]

Ah, then Dirk will stop worrying so much about marcus...maybe he can become a skeleton to help the group that is down here already...

The other was a weak attempt at a joke as the guy sending us on the journey wanted us to return remarkable and important items for the kingdom since it was the peoples stuff...so of course Dirk will consider everything unremarkable on the adventure <insert evil grin here>.

[attriel]

Ah, then Dirk will stop worrying so much about marcus...maybe he can become a skeleton to help the group that is down here already...

The other was a weak attempt at a joke as the guy sending us on the journey wanted us to return remarkable and important items for the kingdom since it was the peoples stuff...so of course Dirk will consider everything unremarkable on the adventure <insert evil grin here>.

Oh, heh. Well, OK then.

As for Marcus' gear -- If anyone wants anything, let me know, anything not claimed (AND used immediately) is considered to be a victim of the dragon. Because ES will be coming in with his own self-selected gear, like you did, so you don't have a driving need to be able to sell it and resupply from what he had :o

[drathos]

The Cloak of Distortion would be good for someone to pick up. I don't think the rest of it would be useful to anyone else.

[Kiir]

The Cloak of Distortion would be good for someone to pick up. I don't think the rest of it would be useful to anyone else.


I was thinking the same, the only one who doesn't have a back/neck magic item is Belvar, so I think it is all his if he wants it.

[drathos]

I was thinking the same, the only one who doesn't have a back/neck magic item is Belvar, so I think it is all his if he wants it.

I might as well grab that for Belvar, then..

[DirkDarkBlade]

We did pick up any coins he happened to have on his corpse didn't we? Just upholding the class stereotype.

[DinbinFanfoom]

We probably should run, I'm thinking.

[Kiir]

That was my thought

[attriel]

No map yet, since if you're going for the "run away!!!" option, I'd need a totally different map.

And while I appreciate the map tool, it's not quite so much fun that I'm interested in using it to draw bonus maps :o