Tactics Thread

[Shiz]

This starts with the Oni fight.

Trask's goals:

1) Moment of Glory to push and prone enemies so Bal and Brun can get to their weapons
2) Spiritual Hammer on someone to give us CA

I hate confined areas, though. It really hurts us tactically.

Burn your Dailies and APs early to get the number of enemies down.

[Lycos]

As soon as I get a minor that I am not using, I'll use One Mind, One Heart. That should at least give us the advantage of communicating without the monsters figuring out what we are doing.

I intend to do the same, use APs and Dailies fast. Hopefully, we can knock one or two out with a quick first assault.

Also, if the dopplegangers are going to shift to reflect us, I recommend that we fight the ones who will be the best paired up. I think either Brun or I should take on the doppleganger that Fandango is fighting since one on one he will get beat up pretty badly. With higher ACs, we can do much better against a rogue. Also, getting CA would help Fandango out if we can get on the opposite side of Fandango.

The map will help.

[Asharad]

SHould we focus fire on the oni?

[DinbinFanfoom]

SHould we focus fire on the oni?
Without her weapon, Brun is just a brawler. I'm going there first, and Sagar knows this and the Oni likely has something nice prepared.

[Shiz]

Trask will use Glory and Command to knock the Oni away from the weapons. Brun and Bal, if Trask fails, you can bull rush. Grabbing the dopplegangers isn;t a bad idea either if you don't have weapons.

As far as the monsters, the dopplegangers are likely low hp, high dps. The Ogre is likely low WIL and REF.

Amaril, maybe witchfire on the Oni to debuff his special attack?

Sorry if I am acting like a raid leader!

[DinbinFanfoom]

No, it's cool. Since init order has us all 3 in a row, there is no problem with bal and brun delaying until after trask.

[Lycos]

Ok, I'll delay until after Trask gets his turn.

[Shiz]

Lycos, if Sagar does not move you, then do not delay. Bull Rush the Oni so I can get you in my burst (5 dmg resist to allies).

Actually, it might make sense for both of you to Bull Rush to make sure one succeeds.

This is a small space. If the Oni has an AE, there really isn't any way to avoid it.

We also need to Ogre marked or he is likely to come straight for me or Amaril.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun plans to bull rush, but only after Trask gets a shot at knocking the Oni back. If he fails, she'll still rush.

[Lycos]

I think Dinbin is right. Let's see whether or not you succeed Shiz.

[EricStratton]

If no one before Amaril is able ot move the Oni, Amaril will give it a shot w/ his daily Curse of the Dark Dream.

[Asharad]

So..who should I attack? The Oni?

or should I try and take out the dopplegangers while ya'll attack the oni?

[Shiz]

Attack anyone you can get CA against. Blinding barrage might not be a bad first move, though. Anything to debuff to hit early.

[Lycos]

The doppleganger on you can severly damage us if we don't keep it busy. I would vote for doppleganger for now.

[Shiz]

If Baladir stays where he is, Trask cannot get him in the AE for the 5 damage resist. Best if you bull rush, Bal, and let Brun delay.

[Lycos]

If Baladir stays where he is, Trask cannot get him in the AE for the 5 damage resist. Best if you bull rush, Bal, and let Brun delay.

Ok.

[Asharad]

Because of the surprise round I don't have a CA on anything right now. Ya'll keep the oni busy, I'll see if I cant **** the doppleganger on me up a bit.

Blinding barrage will be up in a bit when I can get in a better position.

[Shiz]

We forgot our +1 initiative bonus from Baladir again, didn't we? I sure did.

[Asharad]

I always do

[Shiz]

It might make sense for Baladir to try and pin down the Oni and Brun to mark the Ogre. Tough call, though. They both have reach which is something new for us.

[EricStratton]

I always do
That's funny b/c as I was rolling I thought "Don't we get an INIT bonus from someone? Let's check everyone else's rolls against their sheets and see if they added anything....hmm, nope. And they are better at remembering that stuff than I am. Oh well."

[Asharad]

That's funny b/c as I was rolling I thought "Don't we get an INIT bonus from someone? Let's check everyone else's rolls against their sheets and see if they added anything....hmm, nope. And they are better at remembering that stuff than I am. Oh well."


That's exactly how I am. In the back of my mind I feel like I am forgetting something...oh well, ROLL.

[Lycos]

That's exactly how I am. In the back of my mind I feel like I am forgetting something...oh well, ROLL.

:roll:

I think at my next level, I am going to switch that feat with something else.

[Asharad]

It would be extremely useful if I wasn't such a dumbass.

[Lycos]

It would be extremely useful if I wasn't such a dumbass.

At least, you're not alone. :D

[Sagar]

On my party data sheet for you guys, I have those bonuses added in. I just need to remember to subtract them when the proper person isn't around.

You COULD just write on your character sheet "+1 Baladir" so you don't forget...

[EricStratton]

On my party data sheet for you guys, I have those bonuses added in. I just need to remember to subtract them when the proper person isn't around.

You COULD just write on your character sheet "+1 Baladir" so you don't forget...
Write? What year is this? ;)

[DinbinFanfoom]

The Oni shifts to the south of Brunhilde (H7) and exhales a hypnotic breath (close blast 5). The breath spreads throughout the room (Brun 23 vs Will 13+2, Fand 27 vs Will 18+2, Baladir 14 vs Will 18+2, Trask 25 vs Will 23+2, Amaril 28 vs Will 20+2). Brunhilde, Fandango, Trask and Amaril are dazed and very sleepy. (SE. Failed save = unconcious).How did a close blast 5 hit both Brun and Trask/Amaril? I can't find a way to draw a 5x5 block on them all...

[Asharad]

How did a close blast 5 hit both Brun and Trask/Amaril? I can't find a way to draw a 5x5 block on them all...

Good question but wrong place.

[Sagar]

How did a close blast 5 hit both Brun and Trask/Amaril? I can't find a way to draw a 5x5 block on them all...

CB 5 means it goes out from the source 5 in all directions. So it's really an 11x11 box.

[Shiz]

Close burst 5 is 11x11. Close Blast 5 is 5x5 starting from in front of the caster. Page 272 in PHB to see it.

[Shiz]

Trask needs the Ogre marked as soon as possible. Trask saved so he can shift away safely with Evasive Strike on his next turn.

[Shiz]

Lycos, just to be clear, do you know the difference between Divine Challenge and Divine Sanction? Divine Sanction was added with Divine Power.

[Shiz]

Trask's next round will involve using Evasive Strike to shift to safetly and put an arrow in the most wounded doppy.

[Shiz]

Lycos, as far as the heal fro Paladin's Judgement if you still go that route, both Fandango and Trask could use it but Trask is probably in most immediate danger, flanked as he is for another round.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun is charging (she only has one action due to dazing) the half-ogre because the Oni is too close.

[Asharad]

Daze should only be one turn, I believe.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Daze should only be one turn, I believe.
I think you're dazed until you make the second save... fail the first save and you go to sleep.

[Shiz]

I am assuming save ends daze and anything else.

[Sagar]

Save and you're fine. Fail save and you're unconcious.

I've often wondered.. do you get a ST if you're unconcious or does someone else have to try to wake you?

I mean, you get hit with sleep gas, fall down and 10 seconds (and one save) later, you're right as rain! With a bad set of rolls, you may be down 20-30 seconds. Why would a mob evolve with THAT as a special ability?

But the way the game is set up, you do get a save while unconcious.

So.. daze (SE). Fail and you are unconcious (SE). Make that and you're back to dazed (SE). Make that and you're ready to rock.

[Lycos]

Lycos, just to be clear, do you know the difference between Divine Challenge and Divine Sanction? Divine Sanction was added with Divine Power.

Nope, never heard of Divine Sanction.

[Shiz]

Basically, it is a marking ability that is tied to specific powers, separate and in addition to Divine Challenge. The effect is the same except that you do not have to engage the target to keep the mark.

[EricStratton]

I'm waiting to use Crown of Madness until I'm not dazed. I want to be able ot keep the sustain minor going.

[Shiz]

Now you are unconscious so it's gone, right?

[EricStratton]

Now you are unconscious so it's gone, right?
It would've been if I'd have cast it. Which is why I didn't. I have to faith in my Saving Throw powers. :lowlol:

[EricStratton]

Did our cleric just choose to attack instead of heal me? Bastard!

[Lycos]

Excellent damage Dinbin. :D

[EricStratton]

Excellent damage Dinbin. :D
Indeed! Looks like I can rest this fight. :lowlol:

[DinbinFanfoom]

You can thank the dice, I guess... crit plus max damage rolled on the 2d6 weapon enhancement bonus helps. They'll each take 8 more damage when their turns start.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Fandango:

Let's try to flank this caster. You go north, Brun will go south, if she can find room.

Edit: I have an idea. If someone before Brun can get to G7, she can try to whip them behind the Oni with Covering Strike to set them up for next turn. Or if it's possible to move and then trigger their attack for her CS to hit, we might be able to do it all in one turn. If CS misses though... no attack for the flanker... is that confusing?

[Asharad]

Just a note, the girl doppl has got to be almost dead and the boy is in bad shape.

edit: Nm, the girl is dead. Yeah, let's get this douche.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Ranged chars should probably cover the exits (stand in them) too. We don't want him escaping.

[Asharad]

Crap, tried to slow it but I'm pretty sure I missed.
.

[Lycos]

Shiz, try and get Amaril back up.

[Shiz]

Shiz, try and get Amaril back up.

Not sure how to help him other than Aid Another to give him a saving throw. Times like this make me wish I had Sacred Flame...

Is Doppleboy visible to us? He is on the map.

This fight went from "we are doomed" to sham-wow simple thanks to Brun's uber crit and a couple of 1s from Sagar.

[Lycos]

Not sure how to help him other than Aid Another to give him a saving throw. Times like this make me wish I had Sacred Flame...

Is Doppleboy visible to us? He is on the map.

This fight went from "we are doomed" to sham-wow simple thanks to Brun's uber crit and a couple of 1s from Sagar.

No more heals left?

And yeah, it has helped a lot that Brun went crazy and killed a couple right off the bat. :D

[Sagar]

Amaril is not really wounded.. just unconcious. He hasn't rolled his ST vs that yet.

[Lycos]

oh... :D

[Shiz]

An educated gues son Oni stats: 24 AC (unconfirmed but 2 greater than WIL fits patterns we have seen before), 22 WIL (confirmed). REF and FOR probably 21 or 22.

[Shiz]

The gas breath might recharge. We need to position ourselves around the Oni as much as possible. Baladir, you should shift to I7 or I8. Marking the bear would be nice, too.

[Lycos]

The gas breath might recharge. We need to position ourselves around the Oni as much as possible. Baladir, you should shift to I7 or I8. Marking the bear would be nice, too.

I want to go to I8 to get CA on the Oni, but I can stay at I7 and work on the rug. I might have better luck at hitting it.

[Asharad]

No looking sagar!

Given sadistic Sagar's love of hostages, I suspect the doppleboy might come back with one. If that happens, I will go right after him.

Which may result in the death of one of the kids, but better one than all and I am kinda sick to death of the whole "drop your weapons or the XX dies" scenario.

[Shiz]

Agreed. For the record, Trask still has a heal left and we all have Second Wind.

[Lycos]

No looking Sagar.


LOL @ your comment of being tired of the drop your weapons or we'll kill X. Yeah, I agree completely. We no longer negotiate with terrorists. :D

[Shiz]

I am just pissed that I never thought to make a perception check with my +17 mod....

[Shiz]

I want to re-iterate about the possibility of the Oni's sleep breathe recharging. We need to not all be in the "cone" (it is not a cone, but you know what I mean).

[Lycos]

No looking Sagar.


Ash, are you planning on going after dopple boy?

[Shiz]

Also, the rug might de-animate if the Oni is killed so Bal should keep it marked but we should concentrate fire on the Oni.

[Asharad]

Shiz, you are right. I'll probably retreat if I dont get killed this round.

Lycos

No. I literally have no idea where he is and he is invisible. It doesn't make sense to go running off in the hopes I can track down a relatively low powered enemy when the main guy is right here. DB might bring back help or a hostage, but who knows either way.

[Lycos]

I agree.

[Shiz]

Guys,

I got a PM from Sagar pointing out that Trask was never "blinded" by the doppleboy and could see him the whole time and thus, via Baladir's One Hear, One Mind could have "told" everyone where he was.

He did go through the middle door. Fandango, do you and I want to go hunt him? I think we probably should at least peek down there.

[Asharad]

No Sagar:

We've got a lot on our plate. If he is coming back with reinforcements then he is already coming back with reinforcements and us going down there will only put us in the middle of a bunch of bad guys. He's several rounds ahead of us, now.

If he is coming back with a hostage, then we can deal with that later. We may lose a kid, which is unfortunate but there you have it and we can kill him then.

We have the major bad guy in this whole situation right here in front of us. He is not bloodied, but he has sustained damage. He's gotta be the most dangerous single factor in a few mile radius.

Worse case scenario, the doppleboy kills all the kids. I don't see where that gains them any tactical advantage whatsoever. PLus, for the Oni the kids are like treasure, if I understand it correctly.

There may be other twists and turns with the kids but right now we have no idea what those may be. We have a major enemy. He is here. He is trying to kill all of us. He is not an insignificant foe. Killing him is key to whatever we do here. Not letting him escape is key to that.

Not pressing our current slight advantage is, I think, a mistake.

[Shiz]

Agreed, then.

[Shiz]

Fandango is not flanking with Baladir. If Bal was one square south, both Brun and Fandango would be flanking.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Fandango is not flanking with Baladir. If Bal was one square south, both Brun and Fandango would be flanking.
You are right, Shiz. I thought he was perfectly diagonal at first.

[Sagar]

It is too late to fix this but I forgot that Command dazes. My fault. I was posting remotely. It would have helped, certainly.

True.. no net change, though, except that the Oni would have been prone instead of standing. It would not have changed the outcomes materially between then and now.

[GravenStone]

Oni goes into a Frenzy!

[Lycos]

Oni goes into a Frenzy!

*points*

YOU! SHUT UP NOW! :evileye:

;)

[Lycos]

You know. Now that I think of it. How come the mobs get mad when they get hurt. We never get the mob that just starts to break down crying, balling its head off that its boo boos hurt. :roll:

[Sagar]

Maybe it's really the DM that's mad. Angry at you mean ol' adventures always picking on his poor, misunderstood mobs. You big meanies!!!

[Shiz]

We have to kill the bear before we go down there.

[Sagar]

You know, I made this bear rug (and most of the rest of the dungeon) in 10th grade Trig class so so long ago. I never got to run this dungeon back then and I am going to be terribly put out if, after all this time, it never even gets to hit anybody.... *sniff*

[Asharad]

If it makes you feel better the bear rug is a wonderful touch.

[Lycos]

If it makes you feel better the bear rug is a wonderful touch.

And it looks soft and warm. :mrgreen:

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun requests permission to pursue the Oni and try to pin him down or at least hamper him.

He's near death (maybe) and will most likely heal up to fight us again if we don't stop him now.
Brun will only pursue so far, though someone tagging along with a light would be good.
If she can stay adjacent to him, she can OA him and stop him if he tries to move (just got a bad roll this turn) and RoS can continue to do damage on his turn starts. Brun is also near max hp.

Can 3 of y'all finish up the rug?

[Asharad]

Having resisted up to this point, I'll go with Brun.

[Lycos]

Yeah, I would say, we can't let the Oni out of our sight. I can stay up here and work on keeping the rug busy.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Note that my qualifications are:

1) We won't chase him more than a turn or 2 away.
2) We'll bring a light
3) Our primary mission is to slow/stop him. If we can kill him, so be it.
4) We'll use the buddy system and hold hands the whole time, Mom.

Heck, we can all just fight down the stairs and bring the dang rug with us. Or close the doors behind us and let it burn itself and the house down, I don't care. :P

[Shiz]

Splitting the party is very risky. If you get knocked out by the sleep gas thing and you are alone, you are fracked.

[Lycos]

Splitting the party is very risky. If you get knocked out by the sleep gas thing and you are alone, you are fracked.

I can shift towards the door which should get it moving down towards the hall. I can try closing the door and see if that can keep it at bay for a while.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Splitting the party is very risky. If you get knocked out by the sleep gas thing and you are alone, you are fracked.
It's a consideration, yes. Why not bring the rug along then and fight it as we retreat forwards?

[Lycos]

DM Note: I wouldn't have allowed combat superiority to stop an insubstantial foe. I can't imagine any way someone with an axe is going to stop a foe that can fly through tiny cracks. I am open to formation on this, though. If someone can present an argument that would support this action, I will consider it.


I agree. This was one of the worries that I had going into this fight, but without magic, you aren't stopping it or trapping it.

[EricStratton]

Speaking of the bear rug, try not to damage it too much. It's going in our house when this is over.

[Lycos]

Speaking of the bear rug, try not to damage it too much. It's going in our house when this is over.

Darn, you should've told me before I set it on fire. *snicker*

[DinbinFanfoom]

DM Note: I wouldn't have allowed combat superiority to stop an insubstantial foe. I can't imagine any way someone with an axe is going to stop a foe that can fly through tiny cracks. I am open to formation on this, though. If someone can present an argument that would support this action, I will consider it.I guess my take on it is that the rules allow you to HIT an insubstantial foe, so why not stop it? Plus, the rules are written to try to keep things as simple as possible... When I think of CS and how it might work, I don't think about "this quick, reactive swing stunned you when it hit you", but more like "this quick reactive swing was dealt in such a way that you hesitated in your flight, because the swing itself blocked the way" (who runs into a swinging weapon on purpose)? Dunno if that made sense...

Plus, "insubstantial" and "phasing" are two different things... the Oni becomes gaseous (which is still hittable) but not spiritual or interdimensional....

I dunno. I guess it comes down to how much we want to house-rule, as a case can be made either way.

[Shiz]

4E goes simple to the point of ridiculous sometimes. I agree that technically Din is right but I have no objection to Sagar's ruling. He did let Trask push a jelly with a bow power which also makes no sense.

[DinbinFanfoom]

4E goes simple to the point of ridiculous sometimes. I agree that technically Din is right but I have no objection to Sagar's ruling. He did let Trask push a jelly with a bow power which also makes no sense. Of course I'll abide by whatever ruling he makes, no problem there.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Can we at least agree to fight a running battle down the stairs? Some juggling of init order might be required, and we'd need a lightsource near the front. I suggest:

Brun, Fandango, Amaril, Trask, Baladir (tanking the bear as we go). Brun/Fandango might need to pull ahead a tiny bit to reach the Oni (speed 8) but it should be doable.

[Asharad]

Yeah. let's all go.

[Lycos]

Let's do it.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Yeah. let's all go.
Did he go down the double-doors? If so, we can go two abreast.

[Asharad]

Doesn't Baladir have a flaming sword? I've got stuff in both hands too.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Doesn't Baladir have a flaming sword? I've got stuff in both hands too.Yeah, but flaming paladin is frolicking on the bearskin rug. We need a flash-bang. :P Why not just toss a sunrod down the steps? Dunno... longshot.
Brun could always put one in hand (minor), axe in the other and drop the rod when she encounters something (free). Can she do that, Sagar?

[Lycos]

You know who can really help us with the light. Amaril. He's got that super sun rod.

The Oni might not take too kindly to bright light.

Amaril, you should try the thing you did with the vampire on this guy.

[EricStratton]

It's worth a shot. I need to find what I did and how I did it....

[EricStratton]

Found it:

Amaril realizes that, normally, he channels 1 charge of energy to get light for 2 hours. He realizes it just might be possible to release that energy faster... possibly MUCH faster.. and get a more intense light.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Found it:
Amaril realizes that, normally, he channels 1 charge of energy to get light for 2 hours. He realizes it just might be possible to release that energy faster... possibly MUCH faster.. and get a more intense light.
That normally wouldn't help us because Amaril's init is down in the list... BUT! ALL of us are still before the Oni, so we could totally reorder our group init without letting him get farther away.

Fandango: delay until after Amaril

Baladir: Fight the rug, keep it busy, on fire, all of the above...

Trask: Delay until after Amaril, but before Fandango

Brunhilde: delay until after Fandango (who is now after Amaril)

Amaril: Light the rod and get onto the stairs as far as you can (within reason, we don't want you eaten). Shoot at something if you have a target, especially the Oni.

Trask (now after Amaril): If Amaril has lit up a target from the top steps, great. I hope it's the Oni. If we still have no targets, grab the rod on the way by Amaril and take it deeper (you're not quite as squishy as he is)

Fandango: Hopefully by now we have SOME target. If we do, go nuts.

Brunhilde: Better have a target by now!

That is my cunning plan. It goes to poop if the stairs are trapped. The Oni can't have gotten TOO far. The rationale is that 1) this may not be "the boss" but it's at least a "mini boss" that we need not fight later... we've done 110 damage to him; he's hurting. Brun wants him dead NOW. :D 2) I hate bosses that run.

[EricStratton]

BTW, do we have any idea who the God of Fire is at this point? Maybe the big fireplace?

[DinbinFanfoom]

I suspect the Oni is at F15... he's on the run. I suspect something is waiting for us on the "landing". Don't go in if you see mobs, Amaril.

[DinbinFanfoom]

The Oni is not is sight and, apparently, somewhere on the other side of the door. With a move of 8 while insubstantial... how is that possible? Farthest he can be is F16, AFAICT... unless the door is between F15 and F16 which means he's just on the other side.

Fandango: Feel free to open that door and attack.

[Sagar]

Remember, the doors don't count as squares for movement.
And he can go through doors without opening them.

[Shiz]

Trask and Amaril in front, holding a beacon strikes me as nuts.

We need Brun in front of Amaril.

Trask is moving to F11. Brun can get to F15 and open the door.

[Asharad]

Yeah, Brun should be first, Am doesn't have to be in front for the light thing to work.

[Lycos]

Trask and Amaril in front, holding a beacon strikes me as nuts.

Holding the beacon or being in front strikes you as nuts?

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun would love to, but I don't think she can get to F15 without a double-move. Plus she'd have to open the door. Hence tasking Fandango with opening the door. Does anyone see any other way we can get the door open and vacate F15 before Brun gets there? Brun would like to be able to attack this turn. If not, Oni gets further away.

I doubt Brun can go through the closed (and probably locked) door, even with a double move.

Sagar: What kind of check would it take for Brun to locomotive the door from her current position? What does Amaril see it made out of?

[Sagar]

You can move 6 or run 8. You can double move 12, 14 or 16. You need at least a minor action to open the door - assuming it isn't locked. You can try to smash the door down, but you have no way of knowing how sturdy it is. It looks pretty solid.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Whoever is next to the door, do you have a minor left? Or does someone have the move to move down, try it (minor) and step back if it opens? Brun needs to know if it's 1) openable or 2) bashable before she gets there. :D

Otherwise, lets go outside and torch this place and check out the mine. :)

[Sagar]

No one is near the door. Amaril is one square away with no moves left.

[Shiz]

I don't want to have a squishy at the door when it opens and then have the melees on the stairs behind. All the squishies have ranged attacks. Brun does not.

[DinbinFanfoom]

So we have a perfect setup! Keep me on my feet and fire at the Oni! :P I'll do my best to stay upright and self-healed. It'll be fun surrounded by big monsters like this, but there ya go.

[Lycos]

I have 2 lay on hands left.

[Shiz]

Now imagine you are Trask. That would have sucked.

[Shiz]

I have 2 lay on hands left.

You have to be adjacent to use them.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Now imagine you are Trask. That would have sucked.
Brun imagines that being Trask would suck pretty much all the time. :D

[Asharad]

We have a slight problem. We can't fire at the stuff at the bottom of the stairs.

We are going to have to push into the room.

Here's a though...I can attack the rug this turn while we get some breathing room downstairs. That make sense?

Anyone have a nice, big AOE they can lob down the stairs?

Or should I go down right behind Brun and take a shot (albiet a covered one) at the ONi?


I'm open to suggestions.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I see two options...

1) Help Bal with that pesky rug.
2) Help Brun push into the room (I think we've done this before... with Bal pushing from behind... I'm not sure what your STR mods are though...)

[Shiz]

Kill the Oni first, then we can worry about Ogres.

Amaril can take potshots. The rest of us can go kill the rug faster until Baladir can come back up Brunhilde. The Oni is a caster-type so pushing it should be easier than pushing an ogre.

Don't forget that all three have reach 2.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Kill the Oni first, then we can worry about Ogres.
That's the plan. I'm flanked, but it's all good. I guess Option 3 is:

3) Fandango get behind Brun and fire at will at the Oni with partial cover (-2 I believe). That's not an insurmountable penalty. Actually, that would be a good plan, I think. You can swap back and forth with Trask if Brun needs heals (she will, probably, at some point).

[Shiz]

Trask does not need line of sight to use his last heal.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Trask does not need line of sight to use his last heal.
Locked and loaded, then. I'd step down and fire away, Amaril or Fandango. Trask stay in the middle to cover heals to both melees. This MAY be the first time a narrow passage works to our advantage. :P Kinda.

[Asharad]

Amaril has gone so it's my turn.

Does it make sense to allow brun to step back one?

The oni is still insubstantial. So it is -4 to hit and you only do half damage.

It probably makes more sense (this round) for me to help finish the rug, even though I'd rather kill Oni.

We need to free up Baladir.

[Shiz]

Go flank the rug and kill it.

As long as the Oni is insubstial, I hope it cannot breath sleep gas on us.

[Asharad]

Got an idea.

Baladir moved so I can't flank the rug now.

However...I'll attack the rug.
Round after that Baladir can go through the door (he is in front of me in the int order)

I'll follow. And close the door behind me. I can't imagine an animated bear rug can open a door.

That way Baladir can get up front to help with the push and hopefully, on my next round I can attack again.

Make sense?

[DinbinFanfoom]

Does it make sense to allow brun to step back one?It does make some tactical sense... but I balance that by not wanting the Oni to get away. Plus RoS and a few other of my skills are useful with multiple mobs... maintaining his insubstantial form will require a standard from the Oni, so he will either stay insubstantial and move, or reform and fight. I'm leaning toward the former... but I've been wrong lots before.

I'd like to fight at least one round here, and maybe back up next turn... lots can change. It's up to you about the rug/Oni. There is no wrong answer.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Make sense?Sure. Can our rearguard keep the door closed against the attack of a flaming metallic bear rug?

[Asharad]

Sure. Can our rearguard keep the door closed against the attack of a flaming metallic bear rug?


I mean really, can an animated metallic bear rug open a door?

It's going to take at least a minor action on my part and I have actual hands with thumbs.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I'd say go with whichever strategy makes the most sense for Fandango. The bonus of yours is that it keeps the square behind me free if Brun wishes to retreat a bit. Can someone move down, fire off an attack and step back out of the square as part of one move? I think that's possible, right? If you have move left, you can finish it after your standard?

Given a move of 6, someone could move 3, fire an attack and move 3 again?

[Asharad]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/pwayers/northerner.jpg

[Sagar]

I'd say go with whichever strategy makes the most sense for Fandango. The bonus of yours is that it keeps the square behind me free if Brun wishes to retreat a bit. Can someone move down, fire off an attack and step back out of the square as part of one move? I think that's possible, right? If you have move left, you can finish it after your standard?

Given a move of 6, someone could move 3, fire an attack and move 3 again?

No. Each action is separate and distinct and the start of one finishes the other. To do that would require Move .. Std.. Move. Or a special ability.

[Asharad]

OKay, this round Baladir why don't you go down the stairs.

I'll follow (more), close the door (minor) and second wind (standard).

[Shiz]

Brun, try and shift south to D7. The Ogres have to leave D6 and D7 open because they are large. This will give Bal a chance to fill in D6. You and Bal can then slowly pull them further into the room.

Just make sure you don't give doppleboy a flanking angle if you can.

[Shiz]

Baladir, down the stairs and attack Ogre 1 from D6. Next round, Brun will spring you free to go after Ogre 2 with Covering Attack.

[Asharad]

That resist 5 is awesome.

[Shiz]

I think it has saved us from 60+ dmg this encounter.

[Lycos]

Yeah, at least. That resist is awesome. :D

[Sagar]

Personally, I think it sucks :mad!:

I can only console myself with the fact that it's a daily ability. :twisted:

[Shiz]

Damage mitigation powers of all kinds lengthen encounters and make them less dramatic, but from a player perspective as the group healer, it gives Trask more actions to do non-healing.

The good news for the DM is the resistance from this power does not scale with tier so the power will likely be replaced in Paragon.

[Lycos]

This is what activated the rug:


Frustrated, the Oni barks out two words in a language you don't understand. The bear rug on the floor comes to like, snarling silently as it flexes steel clad claws and bares it's steel clad teeth. It rises from it's prone position (move) between Baladir and Trask.


Do we have anyone who has any comprehending languages spells?

[Shiz]

Trask has a ritual, but that won't let him recall what was said. The ritual lets him understand any language he has heard for 24 hours, though.

I will have to read up on the specific description. Bal, don't forget your polyglot gem.

[Asharad]

Oni's speak what? Giant probably?

Fandango speaks giant so if I didn't understand it, it's something else (by process of elimination).

[Sagar]

You don't have to understand it, just remember and repeat it.

This would require a successful perception check to have heard it clearly and a successful Intelligence check to remember and repeat it accurately.

(at the time, a perception check request would have been sufficient).

[Sagar]

Oni's speak what? Giant probably?

Fandango speaks giant so if I didn't understand it, it's something else (by process of elimination).

It was not giant.

[Lycos]

You don't have to understand it, just remember and repeat it.

This would require a successful perception check to have heard it clearly and a successful Intelligence check to remember and repeat it accurately.

(at the time, a perception check request would have been sufficient).

So, can we do that after the fact? Or are you saying "at the time", meaning that you guys should've done this back in round 5 or whatever? And with all of us trying to remember the words does that help the recall of the words?

We definitely are keeping it.

[Shiz]

We should do it now in case Sagar decides to assess a penalty for time passing.

[Sagar]

Correct. The intelligence check is required due to the passage of time. The DC for that will get higher as time passes.

[Lycos]

IMO, the rug needs to stay at the manor to help with the heat that they have been getting.

[Shiz]

That makes even more sense if the rug requires commands that use up the commander's turn. However, the Oni awakened the rug and it acted on its own - or that is at least how it appeared.

[Sagar]

The command is a free action.

[Asharad]

Let's leave the rug up here for now.

I understand that it's tired....now. But what if it gets untired and the oni uses the command word again?

[Shiz]

He won't know we have it in my sack. Onward!

[EricStratton]

Sure would suck if he decided to give it a shot and your pack exploded in a cloud of our stuff. :lowlol:

[Lycos]

I don't think we want to be surrounded. At best, I think we should get into a cave. Remember the swarms can go through to any space that is not occupied, even from the front to the back. Although, with the size of these swarms, I'm not sure how that will work. It works for rats.

[Shiz]

We have our back to a wall right now. If these swarms have an aura, then we will want to spread out.

[Shiz]

Baladir, you can move and then charge to reach the mage or the slingers.

[Lycos]

Do we really want to start spreading out?

I'm all for going after the mage. But if I am that far away, there is no way for me to get a heal from you. The best I can do is pop a potion.

[Shiz]

My view of the battle is that Trask should be able to stay mobile. Heal range is Burst 5 which covers a lot. If the second swarm comes after me, though, it could get dicey.

I will adjust to what the tanks want to do, as always. Trask wants to preserves as much of his mobility as possible early on.

[Lycos]

Too many attackers in our rear. I'll try to take out Dopple Boy quickly. He's a decent match up against me. Perhaps Brun wants to head off the front swarm. Once Dopple Boy is out of here. I'll reassess the situation.

[Shiz]

Brun, if you shift west against the wall, you cannot be flanked and you get cover from the slingers.

Can swarms be flanked? I don't think so.

[Sagar]

As far as I am concerned, swarms can be flanked.

[Lycos]

This is not good. We've got our cleric being attacked which then means I have to peel off to help him, and that makes 3 against 2 on Fandango and Brun with lots of flanking opportunities.

[Lycos]

Sorry Dinbin.

I thought it best to get these ranged attacks focused on me. I'm hoping that between Trask and Fandango, they can make a dent on the swarms. Amaril seems to be keeping the other kobolds busy running around and all.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Heh, it's OK. Brun is happy to tie up 2... (20? 200?) mobs.

[EricStratton]

Ok, I brought KS2 back w/ me. And, for the most part, I'm out of teleports.

[Shiz]

Amaril, try and finish off the sneak by Fandango. Trask is going to move to support Baladir against the mage.

[EricStratton]

Amaril, try and finish off the sneak by Fandango. Trask is going to move to support Baladir against the mage.
It should be dead now.

[Lycos]

Amaril, try and finish off the sneak by Fandango. Trask is going to move to support Baladir against the mage.

I would really recommend working the swarms because magic has more potential damage against them than melee damage. Our weapons always do half damage.

Fandango would be a better choice to help with the mage and these strikers/spikers (whatevah there name is).

[Shiz]

I agree and did that.

[EricStratton]

Is it magic that hurts the swarm or AoEs? If it's AoEs as it is for all other swarms, I'm no better at them then you are as my one AoE has been spent.

[Shiz]

Swarms hate AEs thus we hate swarms.

[Lycos]

Is it magic that hurts the swarm or AoEs? If it's AoEs as it is for all other swarms, I'm no better at them then you are as my one AoE has been spent.

I thought I remembered that magic was the better weapon of choice on them. Especially radiant damage.

And Brun really needs the help. I haven't been hit yet.

[DinbinFanfoom]

I thought I remembered that magic was the better weapon of choice on them. Especially radiant damage.
And Brun really needs the help. I haven't been hit yet.
Help is never unappreciated though I'm doing OK so far. I've taken a heal from Trask but Brun has yet to dig into her bag of "heal thyself!" (armour, potion, daily, utilities) tricks... I've been saving them for the Oni.

[Lycos]

Tell my mother....I'm awesome...



I read that in Ash's roll to save vs. Death. :pepis:

[Lycos]

I meant Crushing Surge. :) I blame Sigurd, that Brun-wannabe for the confusion. :D

Hmpf! Sigurd is twice the man that Brun is, with more chest hair. Barely. :rotflmao:

[Lycos]

I think we need to pull out of here for an extended rest. I'm tapped out on powers. I'm not sure that we can hold up to a full Oni fight if he has friends, and I assume he will now.

[Asharad]

We haven't found the kids yet, correct?

ON one hand Iagree. ON the other hand I gotta think they are very close.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun has one daily left, and a potion. Her armour daily and RoS are used up. Still lots of surges left.

I'm also torn. We're not far off, but we're worn down, no doubt about it.

[Lycos]

I think we didn't get an extended rest in before the big vampire fight and that was barely successful. I think we shouldn't push it. I think that we should take the 5 minute rest, and go back to a wooded area, and rest. Then we come back here for the final push to kill the Oni.

[EricStratton]

I think taking more than 5 minutes would be a mistake. I just can't see us going out and sleeping for 8 hours while the kids are still missing and probably in mortal danger.

[Shiz]

I think taking more than 5 minutes would be a mistake. I just can't see us going out and sleeping for 8 hours while the kids are still missing and probably in mortal danger.

Trask agrees. We must push on. We can take a few 5 min rests to maxmize use of Healing Word.

[Lycos]

Huh?

They have been in this situation longer than we've been in the area. An extended rest will assure our success. Our current situation is not going to win us the next big fight.

What do you guys have left? Anything?

I got one healing potion and my At-Will powers. That's it.

[EricStratton]

Huh?

They have been in this situation longer than we've been in the area. An extended rest will assure our success. Our current situation is not going to win us the next big fight.

What do you guys have left? Anything?

I got one healing potion and my At-Will powers. That's it.
No, they haven't been in this situation. B/c our arrival has changed the situation drastically. It's possible the remaining bad guys just want to escape which means resting just means they get away. Or it's possible they want to get rid of any evidence which means our resting just means the death of all the children.

I see no reason they would go down to where the children are and just hang out and wait for us to rest up.

Meta gaming: If I were the DM, you'd have wished you hadn't rested.

If we die, we die. /shrug

[Shiz]

Well said, Eric. We are heroes.

[Lycos]

Meta gaming: If I were the DM, you'd have wished you hadn't rested.

When I DMed, if you ran into a room with demons and you had one hp left. You died. Playing stupid gets you what you deserve in my book.

As for the Oni, he wants those things which are most precious to him. He won't destroy them. That's what he lives for.

[Lycos]

Well said, Eric. We are heroes.

Heros aren't stupid.

[Lycos]

And if we just run in and kill ourselves. No one gets out.

[EricStratton]

When I DMed, if you ran into a room with demons and you had one hp left. You died. Playing stupid gets you what you deserve in my book.

As for the Oni, he wants those things which are most precious to him. He won't destroy them. That's what he lives for.
I guess. If I'm the Oni, I can always get more kids.

If we're going to vote for it, I'm for a 15 minute rest to heal up, and then head in.

[DinbinFanfoom]

15 mins, then we fight on. If you're rescuing kids from a psycho, you move.

[Lycos]

I vote no. Extended rest is our best option. Killing ourselves gets us no where.

[Greebo]

Heros aren't stupid.

BWAAAAAAHahahahahahhahahahahahahhhahaa

Man you should go on stage with that material! ;)

[DinbinFanfoom]

I vote no. Extended rest is our best option. Killing ourselves gets us no where.When we get to Valhalla, Bal can tell Brun "I told you so!".

[Asharad]

I've got a daily left and my usual bag of tricks.

I say what the heck, fifteen minutes and then lets ride.

[Lycos]

The argument is moot now. Off we go!

[Shiz]

Trask still has a Daily, Spiritual Hammer which makes Fandago a Sneak Attack machine.

[Shiz]

Regarding the scout, Command can knock prone or slide, not both. Since it dazes, knocking prone is better since the move action gets wasted on standing. Still, if the scout really wants to get away, he probably can unless we block the tunnel.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Only way to block the tunnel is to have Fandango flank him.
Other option is to draw him to us, but it's risky and I don't know if he'd fall for it.

MAYBE what we do is combine those...
- Get Fandango in position north of him.
- Have one of the kids try to draw him south
- If he moves south, we ambush him, and he has farther to run
- Either way, Fandango can close the trap and delay him from going north.

I like my cunning plan!

[Asharad]

I may be able to get to x8.

[Shiz]

Trask can move 7. That means he can double move from the edge of the map to be adjacent to the scout.

So here is the plan:

Fandango and Trask try and sneak back to row 23. Given how far away that is from the scout, a modest roll should be good enough I hope. Then Fandango can try and get a backstab in and Trask can then close with a double move.

[EricStratton]

Amaril used Cursed of the Dark Dream. Altho if I (successfully) Otherwind Stride him it immobilizes him for 6 seconds (1 round).

[Lycos]

The only way to ensure that he can't get away is to totally surround him or corner him. Can we do something like that?

[Lycos]

If we could get him to V10. We could surround him by having us at W9 - W11 and V11.

[DinbinFanfoom]

The only way to ensure that he can't get away is to totally surround him or corner him. Can we do something like that?
See: "Brun's Plan"

[Lycos]

See: "Brun's Plan"

That's fine. But surrounding him or cornering him has to be the end plan. If he runs, we're done.

[DinbinFanfoom]

That's fine. But surrounding him or cornering him has to be the end plan. If he runs, we're done.
Brun's plan includes these very features! If you act now, we'll even throw in CA!

The drawback is that we risk the life of a child and one of the folks we came here to rescue. :D

Badumpching.

[Asharad]

Let me try and get a hit on the Kobold before you send the kid in. If I can dazing strike it, that should give you all time to get in to me.

[Shiz]

Go for it.

[Lycos]

Brun and I should take X8 and X9. Everyone fill in around to give him no escape. I'll Divine Challenge him so that he has to attack me.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Brun and I should take X8 and X9. Everyone fill in around to give him no escape. I'll Divine Challenge him so that he has to attack me.
We're coming from the SOUTH, Bal. We'll be at V10/W10. Fandango will be at X8, blocking escape east.

[Lycos]

That won't block his escape to the East. The block at Y9 is darkness. He can run around Fandango.

[DinbinFanfoom]

That won't block his escape to the East. The block at Y9 is darkness. He can run around Fandango....initiating OA's from both Fandango and anyone at W10. We can try to get to X9 if possible, but we'd take OA's of our own to get around the mob. I can't see any way that he'll let two tanks waltz to the doorway behind him.

[Shiz]

Let's do this,

[Lycos]

...initiating OA's from both Fandango and anyone at W10. We can try to get to X9 if possible, but we'd take OA's of our own to get around the mob. I can't see any way that he'll let two tanks waltz to the doorway behind him.

These guys shift as a minor. It doesn't take much and they're gone.

[Asharad]

It looks like I'm going to be right behind the guy. he's going to need a hell of an perception roll to beat me. We may not need Bucks help at all. Maybe better to send him back to the room we found him in to guard the kids.

[Asharad]

I suggest we do everything we can to get the fire kobolds on our side, including agreeing to completely leave their cave system if we are granted safe passage or we can take out the oni for them and leave them at peace. Whatever they want.

[Shiz]

Skill challenge discussion:

We are 2/0. Sagar has not indicated if there is a limit to how often we can use any skill. The tension makes Intimidate unlikely to help us. That leads to Bluff. Our Bluff Maestros are Amaril and Fandango at +12 each.

Other ideas:

- History: talk about how kobolds are constantly oppressed by more powerful beings. If we rid them of the Oni, then they can worship the God of Fire in peace. Defiance will leave them alone if we deliver the children with a story about their aid. Defiance understands the importance of self-preservation, yadda yadda.
Historians: Amaril +14, Trask +8

- Religion: We can try and incite the Fire kobolds against the Oni kobolds as blasphemers. Why are the latter putting the Oni above a deity? The newcomers bring gifts for the deity. This will please the deity who will reward his followers.
Religionists: Trask +8, Baladir +8.

Proposal: Amaril goes with History, Trask assisting.

Thoughts?

[Lycos]

Bluff would be on me, and my bluff skill is only +7.

[Shiz]

Bluff is out, then.

Baladir can press on with Diplomacy if he wants, but I like my HIstory idea. Amaril could talk and Baladir can translate.

[Lycos]

I like History and Religion as well. I can attempt an assist as well.

[Asharad]

I think the history idea is a good one.

[EricStratton]

Yeah, I'd rather stay away from intimidate. It never seems to end well.

[Shiz]

Go for it, Amaril. Keep in mind Sagar's suggestion that RP can get a bonus.

[Shiz]

History worked. Time for Religion or Baladir can make another Diplo check to convince them that with their help we can convince Defiance to leave them alone so long as they leave Defiance alone.

[Asharad]

We need to stress that we just want the kids looked after. We'll go kill the oni or drive him out and then leave them alone.

[Shiz]

Why would a dragon care about magic wood?

[DinbinFanfoom]

Why would a dragon care about magic wood?
As long as he/she isn't making kid-sandwiches with it, Brun doesn't care.

[Lycos]

Why would a dragon care about magic wood?

Who said anything about a dragon?

I'm thinking a fire elemental of some sort.

[DinbinFanfoom]

Who said anything about a dragon?
I'm thinking a fire elemental of some sort.
Brun grabs Baladir by the top of the helmet and turns it, like some sort of WOODEN KNOB in the direction of the RED DRAGON in the middle of the room.

[Shiz]

Who said anything about a dragon?

I'm thinking a fire elemental of some sort.

The leading kobolds enter the chamber and move to either side. The guards do the same. As you enter the chamber, you see the guards and horde kobolds have prostrate themselves on the floor, bowing to a large red dragon.

The priest walks forward exactly 10 paces and stops. In ritual tone, he says "Glory to the God of Fire and to his High Priest Sebastion. We, the servants of the God and of the Priest bring forth supplicants. Pilgrims bearing holy offerings and desiring the blessings of the true Lords of these Caverns."

The dragon opens a massive eye and turns it's head to gaze at you. A deep rumbling fills the cavern as the dragon speaks (in draconic)...

"Indeed. Let the supplicants come forth. For I hunger and would know if I bless or dine this hour...."

That one...

[Lycos]

Ok. Ok. I posted it before I saw the text.

Sheesh. :p

[Shiz]

Baladir, be VERY respectful. Tell it that we seek its permission to destroy the Oni and we bring a special gift in the hopes that such a grand creature blah blah blah

[Lycos]

Baladir, be VERY respectful. Tell it that we seek its permission to destroy the Oni and we bring a special gift in the hopes that such a grand creature blah blah blah

Killing the Oni is non-negotiable.

[Asharad]

Killing the Oni is non-negotiable.


Its a really big dragon surrounded by it's minons. The only thing non-negotiable is that it doesn't get to eat the kids.

[Shiz]

Of course, but you don't tell a dragon something is "non-negotiable". Well, you might, but...

[Lycos]

Baladir will not state it directly. There are other ways to say things than the direct route.

[Asharad]

AT first I thought this was a dragon with delusions of grandeur but now I am thinking it might actually be a real fire god.

[Lycos]

I'm still banking on not a real god, but a fire elemental with a big ego. :D Maybe a Djinn.

[Asharad]

It occurs to me that the Oni is a shapeshifter.

[Lycos]

It occurs to me that the Oni is a shapeshifter.

That is correct.

[Asharad]

Yeah...I know. My point is...we seem to be walking a lot here...my Fandango sense is tingling.

It's probably nothing but I find myself wondering if anyone has ever seen the oni, this dragon and the fire god all at the same time.

[Lycos]

If this is the Oni or the next one is the Oni. We're dead. Start rolling another character.

I think you're imagination is running on overdrive. :D

[Shiz]

No it isn't. Damnit, Fandango. You may be on to something.

Remember, Bal, how Fandango's perception check warned him in the house?