Immigration - Will it affect how you vote this year?

[Shiz]

Immigration is a hot button issue in some districts and not in others. What do you think?

[Caranthir]

Both sides have pretty much abdicated responsibility, so probably not.

[ColonelSanderz]

my first voting year!

no it will not. not really anyway.

[Shiz]

The second option should read "Illegal Immigration..." like the others.

[leng]

The second option should read "Illegal Immigration..." like the others. Actually legal immigration is much more of a problem 'cause you can't just tip of the Immigration authorities and get the bastards deported.:lowrazz:


Duh - did someone turn off the badword filter?

[shadowgate]

This isn't a big issue compared to alot of other things out there, for me at least. If I lived in the south it might be on my radar but even then I see other issues that I am more worried about.

[Lycos]

Where is the option, that fencing is just a dumb idea period. Like that ever stopped an illegal immigrant?

Immigrant1: "Jose, there's a fence. Should we try to go around it?"
Immigrant2: "No Pedro. Let's go back home where our lives suck."

Oh yeah, that'll be the situation everywhere.

[Erudite]

Actually legal immigration is much more of a problem

Yeah, here in Michigan we have far too many Canadians streaming across the bridges fleeing the draconian and un-American socialized medical practices of Canada, then running for public offices and mucking things up here as well. :roll:

[Aananla]

Where is the option, that fencing is just a dumb idea period. Like that ever stopped an illegal immigrant?

Immigrant1: "Jose, there's a fence. Should we try to go around it?"
Immigrant2: "No Pedro. Let's go back home where our lives suck."

Oh yeah, that'll be the situation everywhere.
A fence (http://www.minutemanhq.com/bf/) is not a dumb idea.

[Lycos]

A fence (http://www.minutemanhq.com/bf/) is not a dumb idea.

Is too! :lowlol:

[Sagar]

Is NOT!

[Charinida]

Personally, I'd prefer my tax dollars to be spent on something more useful... Like... Cancer research, or more support for the wounded military personnel...

[Sagar]

Personally, I'd prefer my tax dollars to be spent on something more useful... Like... Cancer research, or more support for the wounded military personnel...

Or stem cell research or healthcare or education or debt reduction or ...

[deepfred]

actually, my big fear about building a fence is that it might work.

i think right now our economy would destabilize irrevocably should we actually figure out a way to eliminate illegal immigration abrubtly.

i would love to correct the problem over time, but things are very dicey right now and a sudden shift in the low end of our workforce would dramatically shift things in such a way that could end in a crash, rather than the on/off recession we've been in since the turn of the millenium.

being cash poor doesn't help either.

but yeah, if we actually had the money to build an effective fence, i'd rather the money went to much more pressing issues, eg healthcare, education, etc.

[Raveneye]

You wouldn't think illegal immigration was a problem way up here in Ohio, but it is. Cincinnati has a large immigrant (both legal and illegal) population and several INS raids in the area in the past couple of years have netted large roundups of illegals working jobs that should be going legal citizens and legal immigrants.

That said, fencing the border isn't the answer. It's too large in scope and too costly to maintain. The answer lies in overhauling the immigration and naturalization processes and in working together with the Mexican government to improve the situation. Honestly, it's never going to stop as long as economic conditions in Central American countries are such that people are so desperate to get out that they will risk their lives to cross the border.

[Charinida]

Dig a huuuuuge trench, 5km wide, 100m deep... Think that'll work?

Of course, that might screw up the atlantic/pacific aquatic life forms... :D

[Caranthir]

The answer lies in overhauling the immigration and naturalization processes and in working together with the Mexican government to improve the situation.

That only works if the Mexican government is interested in stopping it. To this point they haven't been. Why would they want to stop the revenue flow they get from illegals living in America? That might change with the new government, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Sylvene]

Dig a huuuuuge trench, 5km wide, 100m deep... Think that'll work?

Of course, that might screw up the atlantic/pacific aquatic life forms... :D

Seriously.... No. They'd boat over. Think of the Vietnamese. They were willing to cross hundreds of miles of ocean in a leaky boat for a better life... 5km's not going to stop anyone.

[leng]

A fence (http://www.minutemanhq.com/bf/) is not a dumb idea.
The dumb idea is thinking that anything will, in the long run, stop people going where they think they can get away from intolerable social conditions.

[Aananla]

The dumb idea is thinking that anything will, in the long run, stop people going where they think they can get away from intolerable social conditions.

If you're wounded and you can't stop the bleeding, you slow it down as best you can until a more permanent solution is available. The border fence is not a solution to our illegal immigration problem, but it is a necessary first step.

It does seem to be working for Israel.
This fence proposal is not a new idea. Colin Hanna at We Need A Fence has proposed a superlative design, and now the Minuteman CDC is making it a reality. At present, six private land owners are partnering with the Minutemen to commence construction of border fencing on their land. Surveillance cameras on the fencing will be monitored via computer by registered Minutemen across the country. We have chosen a security design that is based on the Israeli fences in Gaza and on the West Bank that have reduced terrorist attacks there by 95% or more. In order to be effective, a fence should not be easy to compromise by climbing over it with a ladder, cutting through it with wire cutters, ramming it with a vehicle, or tunneling under it undetected. No fence can be a 100% impenetrable barrier?but a good design will be time-consuming enough to breach that Border Patrol agents can be alerted and arrive at a point of attempted incursion before any illicit crossing can be completed.

[Shiz]

I am with Aan. Build a fence to stem the flow, then address the policy issues that make it so attractive for illegals to come.

[Lycos]

I'm not for that. Spend Billions of dollars on a fence that can't be maintained or properly manned, then come up with a policy. Let them spend your money on that. I on the other hand would like the permanent solution first. No money until the politicians face the music.

All this is going to do is put the money into the guys who have the resources to build tunnels under the fence. It's been done before with drugs. Drive more money into their hands, and they'll have a nice business in Mexico.

[Caranthir]

This is the federal government we're talking about. By the time they come up with a permanent solution we won't need the fence because there won't be anyone left in Latin America.

[Greebo]

Or we'll move there and take over...

[GravenStone]

The main problem (and there are a few) with basing your design on the Israeli border fence is they don't treat it as a purely static defense. Rather it is combined with aggressive military and law enforcement activity (on both sides) to make it useful. A purely passive border defense is easily bypassed (just ask France).

[Raveneye]

The fence solution does not take into account the literally hundreds of access points like waterways, tunnels, coastal regions, etc. that could still be exploited. It would also leak like a sieve. There is no way we could maintain it in the face of determined gangs of smugglers wanting to get people across the border. To do so would require thousands of border guards. Since it wouldn't be a high paying job, guess who would fill it? We'd have the same corruption problems here as they do in Mexico, and a multi-billion dollar system would be compromised by guys earning $6 an hour who want to make a little extra by looking the other way.

The fence idea is full of holes, no pun intended.

[Shiz]

The fence will be full of holes, but 100 or even 1,000 holes are easier to monitor that 1,300 miles of uninterrupted open border.

[Aananla]

Does anyone else have a better plan for illegal immigration? I'm sure with all the criticisms for the border fence being bantered about, you must have an alternative, obviously being much smarter than us conservatives and all. :lowlol:

[Andrea]

Does anyone else have a better plan for illegal immigration? I'm sure with all the criticisms for the border fence being bantered about, you must have an alternative, obviously being much smarter than us conservatives and all. :lowlol:

Nope. We all like to just sit around and b*tch about stuff. :mrgreen:

Plus, it isnt our job to come up with brilliant ideas, that is our wonderful goverment's job.

[GravenStone]

Does anyone else have a better plan for illegal immigration? I'm sure with all the criticisms for the border fence being bantered about, you must have an alternative, obviously being much smarter than us conservatives and all. :lowlol:

Let's start with adequate staffing, training and funding of INS and related federal agencies. Then let's aggressively enforce the statutes on the books regarding hiring (and abuses) of illegal workers. Review (and if needed, overhaul) the immigration statutes so that those who want to come here legally have adequate recourse. Raise (and enforce) the federal minimum wage so that employers can't get away with under the counter cash pays with which they bring in illegals to do their work - undercutting legitimate domestic employment in the process. Lean (hard) on the governments of Mexico and Central America (South America to a lesser extent solely due to geographical distances making mass migrations of populace north less likely) to make it less attractive for their people to head north solely for economic reasons.

The solution is clearly not going to be simple, nor likely politically palatible. However, tossing out what amount to knee jerk pandering pseudo-solutions like fencing off the border (or more accurately, only portions thereof) is not an adequate, or even workable response.

[Tulenyre]

That said, fencing the border isn't the answer. It's too large in scope and too costly to maintain. The answer lies in overhauling the immigration and naturalization processes and in working together with the Mexican government to improve the situation. Honestly, it's never going to stop as long as economic conditions in Central American countries are such that people are so desperate to get out that they will risk their lives to cross the border.

I agree, the immigration process needs serious overhaul and we should be doing more to improve the conditions on our own continent (South/Central America is a mess).

[Aananla]

Let's start with adequate staffing, training and funding of INS and related federal agencies. Then let's aggressively enforce the statutes on the books regarding hiring (and abuses) of illegal workers. Review (and if needed, overhaul) the immigration statutes so that those who want to come here legally have adequate recourse. Raise (and enforce) the federal minimum wage so that employers can't get away with under the counter cash pays with which they bring in illegals to do their work - undercutting legitimate domestic employment in the process. Lean (hard) on the governments of Mexico and Central America (South America to a lesser extent solely due to geographical distances making mass migrations of populace north less likely) to make it less attractive for their people to head north solely for economic reasons.

The solution is clearly not going to be simple, nor likely politically palatible. However, tossing out what amount to knee jerk pandering pseudo-solutions like fencing off the border (or more accurately, only portions thereof) is not an adequate, or even workable response.

I agree with most of this, except the raising of the minimum wage, and the expectation that it could be initiated with any expediancy whatsoever.

However, these ideas are not new. This has already been in debate for a while now with Congress and the Senate. It also requires considerably more manpower than a fence that can be monitored.

[deepfred]

so that employers can't get away with under the counter cash pays with which they bring in illegals to do their work

there's your answer. the only reason the illegals south of the border come here are the folks paying them to do so. if it was a major violation of the law (completel with real penalties, criminal penalties), and just half the workforce needed to man 6k miles of fence instead spent their time enforcing those laws, there wouldn't be an issue.

ironic thing is, all those guys paying the illegals under the table are conservative business folks who love avoiding them taxes and minimum wages - and who also fund the election campaigns of their favorite politicians (who don't pass minimum wage laws and instead cut taxes on wealthy business folk) with the profits made from using illegals to do work for less than half the cost of what americans would.

whereas, how they convince working class americans that this is why working class americans should be conservative, hate labor unions, not have healthcare, etc, is staggeringly awesome.

[Aananla]

ironic thing is, all those guys paying the illegals under the table are conservative business folks who love avoiding them taxes and minimum wages - and who also fund the election campaigns of their favorite politicians (who don't pass minimum wage laws and instead cut taxes on wealthy business folk) with the profits made from using illegals to do work for less than half the cost of what americans would.

whereas, how they convince working class americans that this is why working class americans should be conservative, hate labor unions, not have healthcare, etc, is staggeringly awesome.
We all share the blame, not just those darned evil conservatives. Anyone who has had a service mow their lawn, lay some tile, or paint their house shares in that guilt.

[Sylvene]

We all share the blame, not just those darned evil conservatives. Anyone who has had a service mow their lawn, lay some tile, or paint their house shares in that guilt.

Actually, I don't see how my hiring a local yard service company makes me share in the guilt of hiring illegals. When I pay good money to have a reputable company mow my lawn and trim my bushes, I expect that those owners of the business to be law-abiding businesspeople hiring legal workers and paying a good wage.

If you extrapolate that guilt, you could also say that anyone eating in a restuarant also shares in the guilt as there could well be illegals washing the dishes. The same goes for buying your lettuce and apples in a supermarket instead of the local farmer's market from those whom you know harvest their own vegetables and bring them to market.

[attriel]

We all share the blame, not just those darned evil conservatives. Anyone who has had a service mow their lawn, lay some tile, or paint their house shares in that guilt.

really?

damn! i never woulda guessed that all those white americans were illegal mexican immigrants!

WOW!

they musta been wearing disguises :o

[ColonelSanderz]

I agree with most of this, except the raising of the minimum wage

why not? I always wondered why folks don't think this is a good idea.

[Caranthir]

why not? I always wondered why folks don't think this is a good idea.

The majority of workers who are paid minimum wage are teenagers and college students doing fast-food and retail type work (usually of a temporary nature). So raising the minimum wage has very little effect on household incomes.

Also, employers often compensate for minimum wage hikes by either raising prices or simply keeping fewer employees.

[Ciiera]

Having been born in Arizona and lived there for 31 years I can honestly say that there is a massive problem that needs something. If putting up a fence serves as a bandaid, at least it is something to help while something else can be figured out. The number of illegal immigrants from Mexico that come into Arizona is scary. I'd say more on this topic but I have to get in game for the raid.

[leng]

This is the give a fish/teach to fish argument in reverse. If you manage to build a fence it will be at best a palliative and will be a constant economic drain to maintain and man. It will also generate massive resentment south of the border. The same money spent on alleviating the causes of the problem will both provide the same degree of mitigation and build up credit in the international good-guy league tables.


Unfortunately there is a mindset which accepts spending millions of $s on enforcement but objects to spending anything on preventative measures (== government extravagance/waste). Also, be honest, spending money south of the border does not offer anywhere near the opportunities for raking off the pork that building a 1000 mile fence provides to the southern states.

[Andrea]

Ya know, I was going to keep my mouth shut on this thread, but I gotta say, I am totally torn about this issue.

While I do realize that we do have a problem with illegal immigrants...I am not quite sure what the correct answer is. And then on the other hand, if it wasnt for my great-great grandparents, i wouldnt be here posting my reply. They were the one who crossed over here looking for a better life for them and the rest of us. While they have passed on, the rest of the family is law abiding, tax paying, English speaking Americans. (Only talking Spanish amongst each other when it doesnt concern others who dont speak it and cussing in Spanish when we dont want you to know what we've said to you :mrgreen: )

So I dont know what the right answer is, but I am truely happy that my ancestors did what they did.

[Raveneye]

Our only answer is an invasion, to throw down the corrupt and abusive government there which has obviously been sending it's poor across the border for years in an effort to undermine our economy and inject large cells of Spanish speaking population that will someday rise up all at once and take back the Southwestern states and California in the name of Mexico. We surge across the border in force, after liberally bombing key targets, we thrown down the government, enforce military control, rebuild a few public services and oversee democratic elections. Then we slowly phase out our presence over the next decade while telling the world about how we restored freedom to Mexico and what a better place it is now than before.

Oh wait, we're already busy doing that someplace else, nevermind then.

[Andrea]

Our only answer is an invasion, to throw down the corrupt and abusive government there which has obviously been sending it's poor across the border for years in an effort to undermine our economy and inject large cells of Spanish speaking population that will someday rise up all at once and take back the Southwestern states and California in the name of Mexico. We surge across the border in force, after liberally bombing key targets, we thrown down the government, enforce military control, rebuild a few public services and oversee democratic elections. Then we slowly phase out our presence over the next decade while telling the world about how we restored freedom to Mexico and what a better place it is now than before.

Oh wait, we're already busy doing that someplace else, nevermind then.

Slow down there boy, one at a time..... ;)

[Charinida]

Ya know, I was going to keep my mouth shut on this thread, but I gotta say, I am totally torn about this issue.
...
So I dont know what the right answer is, but I am truely happy that my ancestors did what they did.

I believe what you said is true and well said enough.

I'm not sure when my family (name wise) came to the States... :(

For me, it doesn't matter which side of the border, or coastline you come in... To do what is right in support of your family is the main concern, at least to me it would be.

Like my sister in Japan told me in a email a while back... No matter how screwed up the US can be at times, it's still a great country to live in.

It just takes time for it all to come together.

/me is most likely not making sense again.

[Raveneye]

Gravenstone's response was what I would have posted, only way better written. All his points are spot on for eventually reaching a solution to the issue.

As for minimum wage increases, that's a slippery slope but one that will have to be climbed. Minimum wage increases hurt the small business owner and service industries the hardest. It's tough to own a mom and pop restaurant that's barely scraping by and then learn you need to start paying all your employee's an extra dollar an hour. You can't pass the cost to customers, or you lose those customers, so what do you do?

Laws that will make employing illegals much more risky both in terms of fines to the business and jail time for the owners are a solid step in the right direction. Combined with a minimum wage hike to attract legal workers to those jobs, it's the foundation for a solution. The problem is, in the short term, that could cause a lot of companies to go under, as they are barely getting by using illegals at lower wages now and could not afford to hire legals at higher rates. This in turn will cause a "mini-crash" in the services sector, which could ripple through the economy and cause a recession. Not a popular thing to have as a mark of your legacy as President or a Senator.

[Caranthir]

I'm all for attempting to make a better life for oneself and one's family (my family came over during the Great Potato Famine), and I'll be the first to welcome legal immigrants to this country, but beginning that new life by disrespecting the laws of your new home is not a good start.

[leng]

I'm all for attempting to make a better life for oneself and one's family (my family came over during the Great Potato Famine), and I'll be the first to welcome legal immigrants to this country, but beginning that new life by disrespecting the laws of your new home is not a good start.
When you are hungry and your children need medicine and there are people willing to pay you on the other side of the fence those laws don't really mean much.

The critical point to bear in mind is that a lot of illegal immigrants have literally risked their lives to get into the US (eg by swimming 3 miles in cold Pacific currents to get round the end of the fence). Compared to that there is very little in the way of legal deterrence which will stop them. To make a real difference to the motivation which propels people to such extremes you need to do something about the economics of the situation - either improve their situation south of the border or reduce the economic rewards north of it. The latter, of course, involves going after the employers which would probably be a very unpopular move politically. And any marked degree of success would almost certainly either ruin a lot of the agriculture in the southern states or markedly push up the prices of a lot of produce.

Properly managed, the availability of a cheap and plentiful labour pool should be a source of economic growth but no one seems to want to bite the bullet and get out of the current rut. Actually, I have to say that this is one of the few areas where George W. seems to be less extreme and blinkered than he is on most foreign policy issues. From what I have seen/read he actually seems to want to achieve a reasonable compromise rather than the gut-reaction kick-em-out/lock-em-up/shoot-em-all which seems to typify people like the minutemen. Of course, that might just be media filter bias - it is a bit difficult to tell from this distance.

[Lycos]

There is no win-win here. Someone is not going to be happy. An easier approach would be a phased in approach. And work on a two pronged method, business and illegal immigrants. My approach would be to reward the people trying to do it the right way, legal immigration. So, you work with businesses that need to replace their illegal immigrants with legal ones. If they need more than the quota, you up the quota temporarily. All illegals might have a chance to get into a lottery that would be the preffered pool of immigrants when the extra quota needs to be filled, but they should have to register or something along those lines. In the transition, the government should use the National Guard to implement removal of illegals that don't get their chance. After the big push is over, and businesses have their people that they need then a short period of some very serious enforcement should be done. Companies not incompliance get big fines placed on them. And in the long term, INS gets a budget increase perhaps fines would help fund this.

I know more details would have to be ironed out, but that would be my big picture plan. Legal immigrants get their turn first, and the illegals still have a chance. And businesses, get the people that they need. *shrug* It's a start.

[Caranthir]

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable (and even practical) solution Lycos, except you still need some means of preventing more illegals from entering the country while you're trying to get things sorted out.

[Asharad]

Amnesty.


let's face it, the problem isn't that they are here, the problem is they are here illegally. Right now, illegal immigration is costing us money (sorta). Grant amnesty to anyone who is here and loosen up the policy for granting work permits, visas that sort of thing on an ongoing basis. You can't kick all the illegals out (it just isn't practical). That way you can keep track of who is here, tax their incomes (and I don't even care if you set a higher tax rate on immigrants who are under this program). You can monitor and regulate it just like you do with regular citizens. You can put in place a system that makes it easier to become a citizen if you can prove you've been here for X number of years.

Set a deadline for registration then, after that registration, use harsh and draconian measure to inforce both people here illegally and anyone hiring someone who isn't registered.

you're not going to be able to keep people out. Our boarders are just to big, and even if you build the Great Wall of Mexico (or Chari's Friendship Ditch) people are still going to come in.

Whichever party pushes something like this will be unbeatable, incidently, because you will have gained abou 20 million new voters- all of whom love you.

[Greebo]

Whichever party pushes something like this will be unbeatable, incidently, because you will have gained abou 20 million new voters- all of whom love you.
Oh please! Who passed Emancipation? Who passed Civil Rights? WHO do the african-americans typically vote for in record block numbers?

Republicans. Republicans. Democrats.

Why?

Democrats promise them money. Republicans expect them to work for it.

I'm not singling out African Americans either - it doesn't matter what ethnicitiy anyone is - the majority of people vote for you based on how much you promise them for "free".

[Caranthir]

Not to mention amnesty is a great big "f*** you" to all the people who worked hard and played by the rules to come here legally.

[Lycos]

You won't be able to stop illegal people until you can deny them what they want most. A job, free healthcare, etc. You'll have to get tougher.

[attriel]

Oh please! Who passed Emancipation? Who passed Civil Rights? WHO do the african-americans typically vote for in record block numbers?

Republicans. Republicans. Democrats.

Why?


actually, to a certain extent, it's due to the fact that the democrats became the republicans after emancipation, so the reps are dems. they changed the name, and most people don't realize it

[attriel]

Whichever party pushes something like this will be unbeatable, incidently, because you will have gained abou 20 million new voters- all of whom love you.

they'd be unbeatable. for probably 8-12 years.

that actually assumes that these millions of legal-illegal immigrants bother to vote.

hell, it's like <50% of the US population that votes right now?

and mexico's vote was quickly resolved :o

[attriel]

You won't be able to stop illegal people until you can deny them what they want most. A job, free healthcare, etc. You'll have to get tougher.

they get free healthcare?

****, why do i's gots to pay for it?

[Aananla]

they get free healthcare?

****, why do i's gots to pay for it?
You gots to pay, because they gets it free. See how that works? ;)

[leng]

Not to mention amnesty is a great big "f*** you" to all the people who worked hard and played by the rules to come here legally.
Most of the legals have illegal relatives or friends. I don't think they will take it that way at all.

[Caranthir]

actually, to a certain extent, it's due to the fact that the democrats became the republicans after emancipation, so the reps are dems. they changed the name, and most people don't realize it

Huh? The Republican Party has been the Republican Party since its inception. And the Democrats have been Democrats for longer than that.

It's true that many Southern conservative Democrats defected to the Republican Party in the latter half of the 20th century, but I don't think that counts as "changing the name."

[Kiir]

Huh? The Republican Party has been the Republican Party since its inception. And the Democrats have been Democrats for longer than that.

It's true that many Southern conservative Democrats defected to the Republican Party in the latter half of the 20th century, but I don't think that counts as "changing the name."

Actually more or less they did switch. The names didn't actually change, but the goals and believes of the parties changed through the years so if you actually look at the policies of the parties the Democrats are a lot closer to the Republicans of the civil war era, then the Republicans are. It is one of those odd history facts.

[Asharad]

Not to mention amnesty is a great big "f*** you" to all the people who worked hard and played by the rules to come here legally.

So what?

I mean, I'm sorry and all, but are we going to actually solve the problem or be "fair?"

Because really, we can't practically do both.

[Caranthir]

So what?

I mean, I'm sorry and all, but are we going to actually solve the problem or be "fair?"

Because really, we can't practically do both.

Considering the amnesty in '86 (might have the wrong year) created the problem we have now, your solution likely just pushes a real solution off down the road another 20 years or so.

And this is one of those rare cases where I think being 'fair' is just as important as solving the problem. Because if we adopt a stance of "oh, you're here anyway, so we forgive you,' who's going to want to go the comparatively more difficult route of applying for citizenship in the future when they can just fly to Canada or Mexico and sneak across the border?

[noptov52]

Chris Simcox, President of the Minuteman CDC, says fence designers are working to keep costs near $250 per foot.
Let's do a little math! (~1000 miles of fencing) X (5280 feet per mile) = 5280000 feet. (5280000) X ($250 per foot) = $1320000000

Assuming that it didn't run over budget (hahaha!), the MM's fence design would cost roughly $1.32 billion. That's a staggering sum for most of us, but for the federal government that's small potatos. Of course, maintaining and adequately policing the fence would cost much, much more.

We could pay for the fence, and the necessary policing, quite easily by doing away with even a small part of our absurd agricultural subsidies. Besides the benefits of improved border security, there would also be other minor benefits such as: reducing the need for Mexican workers to come to the US, allowing impoverished nations to build up functional agricultural economies, promoting free trade, giving the Doha round of trade talks a chance at moving forward, reestablishing the United States as a leader in promoting economic freedom, and generally reducing the amount the world hates the US. (To name a few.)

[Barrack]

Bah, the answer is simple, have Mexico become the 51st state.

[Charinida]

Bah, the answer is simple, have Mexico become the 51st state.

Uh, which part? There's at least 26 lil' states within that country. :D

[Barrack]

Nah, no prob, the little states become counties, and Mexico becomes the largest state we have (I think its land mass is greater then Alaska's)

[leng]

Nah, no prob, the little states become counties, and Mexico becomes the largest state we have (I think its land mass is greater then Alaska's)
With a population of about 35% of the USA, I would think that Mexico would need to become more than one state, otherwise think how many electoral college votes it would have.

[Barrack]

With a population of about 35% of the USA, I would think that Mexico would need to become more than one state, otherwise think how many electoral college votes it would have.

Bah, why worry about that, we already have nearly half of their population here.

When Mexico does become a state durring the registration process (for them all to be fitted with SSN#'s this is when we can nab all the ones that were in the country Illeagly and fine them for the time.

Every one wins.:goodie!: :goodie!: :goodie!: