Hm. Now what?

[Sir Rubi]

So.

Just when things didn't seem to want to get much worse, they did.

Art Institute dropped me. No warning, using a rule of which I'd never heard before now. I ended up dropping a class and not passing another and they, apparently, have a policy that if you're not passing 66% of your classes, you're not making "sufficient academic progress" and that they can drop you like a bad habit.

Yah. Think I've heard of this before? Uh uh. My AA didn't tell me about this, obviously, when I asked her about dropping my Logic class (run by a "Facilitator" who couldn't teach his way out of a wet paper bag... I figured dropping was better than damaging my GPA any more). So, regardless of my previous grades (mostly A's, some B's), because of this quarter, I'm out. I can appeal, but I'm not sure I even should.

So, in frustration, I started looking at schools online (since I'm going to have to go back to work full-time anyway) and the one I found that I thought would be any good turns out to be one that has several lawsuits pending for their poor financial aid management, teaching, job placement claims, etc... And costs over $30,000.00. I found this out, of course, after I'd contacted them so their salesman (who almost finished suckering me) won't leave me alone, now...

Now, I must admit that I've been thinking seriously about my Game Art degree... Wondering if there really is a career in it, since I've heard both good and bad. I mean, the EA lawsuits alone were enough to make my blood run cold. I thought it'd be a great career... But is it something that I can do to support my family? I dunno.

As far as college, I'm thinking about looking into the local CC where Katy got her two-year, but to do what? And to boot, it has to be all at night, unless it's online. I thought about Katy's current school, but for a Web Design or Graphic Design degree, many of the classes aren't only during the day, but on the other side of Pittsburgh. That makes full-time work an... interesting (the Chinese definition) juggling act.




So, the purpose of all of that was to ask advice. Anyone have any? Maybe someone has been in a similar situation?

[Charinida]

Ouch! Sorry to hear about that Rubi...

I understand totally about the classes, time, distance and cost (esp the online only ones!)... Been thinking of doing those myself but it wouldn't be practical as well.

What problems do EA have?

While at the school, I can only guess that you checked out the possiblities of Internship, or check out the job fairs?

The various games you've played or been exposed to, you checked out their job post listings?

Why not attempt an appeal? Any possible recourse of obtaining some reimbursement for the dropping of the unfinished courses?

:( Sorry...

[Sylvene]

Well Rubi... are you guys prepared to move? With a Game Art degree, you'll be going where the studios are. The EA lawsuits have actually made it better for everyone in the industry.

On whether you should appeal... How far along the degree are you? I would appeal nontheless. If you spoke to your Academic Advisor and his advise was to agree that you should drop the class so not to impact your GPA... you bet your cute little tuckuss I'd appeal! I'd be outraged!

I think Gamasutra.com has a list of accredited schools. Unless you've already checked them out.

[Sylvene]

Char, with how fast the software industry was moving and the types of employees being hired, Labor law was not keeping up.

Traditionally, The professions such as Engineers and Architects / Designers were classified exempt employees. Software Engineers / programmers / devs therefore fell into that classification. i.e. No overtime.

The result of the EA lawsuit was that they do now.

[attriel]

On whether you should appeal... How far along the degree are you? I would appeal nontheless. If you spoke to your Academic Advisor and his advise was to agree that you should drop the class so not to impact your GPA... you bet your cute little tuckuss I'd appeal! I'd be outraged!


well, if he dropped it b/c he was going to fail, i don't see how being outraged helps.

then he'd've had a 33% pass rate. dropping it gave him more time to dedicate to pass the two remaining. there's no good reason for an advisor to say "hey, you know if you drop this course, you need to pass the other two? if you keep this, without dropping, and just fail it, well that'd be different. then you'd just need to pass the other two and feel bad about taking a dive in this one"

not to say it doesn't suck, but there's nothing the advisor could have done, except maybe mention that rubi needed to pass. but since the explanation he was probably given was along the lines of "i don't think i can pass this class, so i want to drop it, to save my GPA, and focus on my other two classes which i can pass", there's no logical reason to feel the need to tell someone "oh, well, that's good. but you need to pass, even though you just told me you would pass."


anyway, it makes getting a full time easier, not having to work it around classes right away :) now you can get settled and work up karma so you can say "hey, boss? i want to finish my degree, would it be OK if i left around 2 on t/th so i could hit classes?" heck, they might even offer to help pay !

anyway, good luck ribu

[deepfred]

joe, by trade i'm a creative director. my job for a few years was to run the creative department for my own web development company which was medium size at around 45 employees, with clients like cisco and microsoft.

if you're looking for a graphic design career, in the kind of field i'm in - which is different to game design/illustration/3D design for sure - all that's going to count is your portfolio and your work experience. period. outisde of agencies, it might be a little different, but where that is true, isn't going to teach you much anyway.

i'll hire someone with 3 years agency experience and a decent looking book way before i'll ever think to look at their school history. the trick for those who hire designers is they need to make sure the potential employee can communicate like a human being, get the work done on time, and handle the pressures they will typically face. and unfortuantely school, especially art schools, seem to have an terrible ability to do this.

also, i would guess a lot of what gets artists hired for companies like lucas arts or EA, is more likely going to be the projects they show in their portfolio than any schooling they have. people responsible for putting these kinds of teams together are going to know what they're looking at in your work.

the one advantage art school tends to lend aspiring designers is the connections they make while there. this diminshes greatly (if not disappears) however, when you get into the world of night schools and online schools.

my advice is to continue studying on your own, stay up to speed with the tools and best practices, develop as many personal projects as you can and find a non-profit, or low-budget start up or other type of client that will let you work for them freelance (ie in your own time, on your own machine) - and start developing your book in the evenings after your day job.

school is great, don't get me wrong, but if you come to me at age 30+, or close to that, with no direct work experience (in the business), i'm not going to care if you graduated from the top art school in the world with qualifications and commendations coming out your ears.

hope that helps. and sorry to hear about the situation.

[Serani]

Well, the thing is, he emailed his AA and asked her what he should do. He was having trouble with the prof and didn't know what the outcome would be. So, he asked her advice. In the 48 credits he's completed (um...16? classes), he had never heard anywhere about the 66% rule or the fact that withdrawals count against him (I thought that's why you TOOK a "W", so it didn't?). Anyway, there wasn't even a whisper of this kind of policy before he had the "Academic suspension' or whatever it was called, on his account. He discovered it - no one said anything. It wasn't until he emailed his AA and asked what it was that he found out. Otherwise, he wouldn't known until much later.

Appealing is an option, no doubt. The big problem is that they seriously frown on less than full time schedules and I think a big part of the problem in the first place was the fact that they wanted him to do so much at one time. We've had a mounting pile of crap concerning their financial aid department (he has a hell of a time getting his leftover monies - which he's *supposed* to get to help pay for books and other expenses), he's constantly in a battle with the advising department to figure out what to take next, and it goes on. Their administration is....well, it could use some work.

Anyway, I'd tossed out the idea of getting some kind of associate's degree, possibly discussing with CCAC (my community college) the idea of putting together a more media/art-driven art degree. The problem isn't even so much on the associate's level as I think he could get enough art-related classes for an art degree there. The problem is there are very few bachelor's programs here in the 'burgh that focus on art...except at AI.

Anyway, he's just been second-guessing the game desing portion, but I still think that enjoying his work would do a lot for us, overall. And while it may not be six figures, I doubt it would be less than he could get in his current field -- mortgage.

Lastly, finding a full time job IS a priority, and if he takes classes at CCAC, it'll be evenings next semester. They have some good online classes and I very much liked their online format. However, I would be extremely surprised if any mortgage companies would let an employee leave to go to school, especially for a program that's going to take them out of the industry.

[Draknor]

My only experience has been with traditional corporate world, and retail/insurance/reinsurance/finance at that.

A couple of things. One of the managers at the drugstore I worked at in high school and college was a really good manager. She was very bright, very motivated, and very easy to get along with. When it came time to find another job, she found that lack of a college degree hurt her a bit, but her attitude and experience landed her a good spot at another company. I lost touch with her after that, but I have no doubt she's doing well today. So, you can make it without a degree.

The woman who was our administrative assistant at my first job out of college was also very bright, had tremendous organizational skills, and always did a great job. But she was passed over for promotions time and time again when we needed new claims people. She bit the bullet and signed up for an evening and weekend program. It took her six years to get her 4-year degree. But, once she did this, a whole bunch of opportunities opened up for her - and last time we spoke she was doing well, quite a bit better than I was, in fact.

So my advice - take it as you will. Try to get an AA degree - liberal arts is fine, or find a focus that you like or in your field if the college offers it. It doesn't need to be *exactly* in your field, close is fine. Make sure that it is fully accredited and that anything you earn will likely transfer elsewhere if you decide to continue. Then perhaps take a more focused year or two degree at a professional or tech college. Or, find a night and evening program at a 4-year university that suits your interests.

It doesn't need to be done in four years. Hell, I took 5 to finish my undergrad degree. Take classes at a pace that you can handle along with your other responsibilities in life. More education almost never hurts, and it will increase your earnings potential down the road. I look at it as short term pain for a lifetime gain.

Also, as mentioned earlier, most companies will pay for some college if it's even slightly related to the company's business. You might not get exactly what you want that way, but it's paid for. A lot of times I find that people don't end up in a job that matches their major in college anyway.

[leng]

Don't know if it is the same in the states, but over here first-filter for job applications is often "does (s)he have a degree?". It could be in shoe-shining, but you need that magic piece of paper.

Edit : Actually, the decision process is more like:

Degree? --- (no) ---> bin
Degree in media studies? --- (yes) ---> bin
Consider for interview

[attriel]

Don't know if it is the same in the states, but over here first-filter for job applications is often "does (s)he have a degree?". It could be in shoe-shining, but you need that magic piece of paper.

Edit : Actually, the decision process is more like:

Degree? --- (no) ---> bin
Degree in media studies? --- (yes) ---> bin
Consider for interview

i know most of the computer jobs seem to do likewise here

i think the games designer gigs are going to do likewise, b/c there are a lot of people who want to get in, and having the games graphics degree means you've got some basis in training and the standardized techniques, so they just need to show you the fancy bits. a solid work portfolio will overcome it, but i doubt mortgage does a lot of graphics :/

[Raveneye]

Joe,

How close are you to finishing? If we're talking a year or less to finish at that school, then appeal. They may put you on "academic probation" or some such nonsense, but it'll be worth finishing.

Otherwise, chuck it and do something else. I highly suggest looking into night programs at local colleges, and talking with admissions counselors about what portion of your completed education would transfer and if you can get exempted from some requirements though previous work experience. You'd be surprised what continuing education programs will consider as valid job experience to ease requirements. YOu may find yourself looking at less than 4 years of night school to earn a 4-year degree in something.

Choosing that something is another matter. Go with what you know or what interests you. In many cases, it's not the specialized degree that matters, it's just the degree.

As for working in the gaming world, that's going to be tough to do without relocating, especially if you're looking for an art department position with a gaming company. Most developers like their art people to be on site at the studio. The other thing to keep in mind is that careers in the gaming industry, even post-EA lawsuit, require many more hours than a normal career at pay levels lower than industry average. There is also ZERO job security, as all the studio closings and project cancelations attest to. I'm not trying to stomp on your dream, just putting some facts out there so you can maybe make a more informed decision.

There has to be more than one school in Pittsburgh with a graphic arts program. Even if you end up in graphic design or advertising, it's better than plugging away at a liberal arts degree you'll never finish 'cause it's so boring, right?

[Sir Rubi]

Thanks muchly for the replies!

I have a lot to think about with this... I still want a degree and I need the study with modelling programs - I think that's my big hangup. Maybe I can pick them up in electives...

Regardless, thanks much! Lots of thinking/planning to reevaluate ;)